The delegate fight: No do-overs...

the Pajama Pundit — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 13:27:39 GMT

This is going to end badly. Michigan in 2008 = Florida in 2000.

Not good for ANYONE involved.

http://thepajamapundit.com/

The delegate fight: No do-overs...

voice of reason, PA — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 13:30:55 GMT

DNC is shooting itself in the foot. If they think they can win in November (regardless who the nominee is) without the support of Florida and Michigan, they're dreaming.

If Obama gets the nomination, he is not guaranteed to carry Ohio. He is in danger of losing two of the most critical swing states that have affected the last two Presidential elections.

DNC definitely can find a way to lose no matter what.

Find a way to RESOLVE the Florida and Michigan primaries. Find a way to count them. Perhaps punish their superdelegates instead. Or have their pledge delegates alone vote (based on what their local districts calls for). There are many ways for the voices to these two states to be heard - and make them feel not left out in the nominating process.

To deny them and gift wrap the nomination to one candidate is just not right. There will always be an asterisk next to him name. And a sure defeat in November.

I hope MSNBC allow this to be posted.

The delegate fight: No do-overs...

Dr.Strangedog, MI — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 13:31:00 GMT

Thank you Senator, Tupac Hunter! We here in MI APPRECIATE your efforts. (Go cubs!)

The delegate fight: No do-overs...

deloresrkennedy@comcast.net — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 13:33:40 GMT

Come on Pennsylvania give Hillary the big WIN and help make up for some of the delegates lost by the FL and MI difficulties. Florida's votes should stand because all were on the ballot and no one campaigned. However, Obama had ads running in Florida. Michigan should have a re-vote and the sooner the better. The DNC needs to change a lot of things regarding primaries. I think they should all we on the same day and all should be winner take all and outlaw those stupid caucuses. That is not a fair was to pick the winner of delegates.

The delegate fight: No do-overs...

Lady Professor — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 13:39:14 GMT

Had Hillary Clinton REALLY been concerned about MI and FL she would have be READY ON DAY 1 back in 2007 to fight for invalid primaries to count. She wasn't.

Yes Hillary, your LACK of action speaks much louder than your words of late, very late.

The delegate fight: No do-overs...

Doles, Miami, FL — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 13:45:27 GMT

The problem I have with the re-votes in Michigan is that some independents, and possibly republicans who would have voted differently, didn't because they didn't want their votes to not count. We all know that before the Rush Limbaugh's revolution most indenpendents were leaning towards Obama. In that case, I think Obama has a point in hesitating to enter the discussion for a revote.

The delegate fight: No do-overs...

patty, sd — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 13:47:00 GMT

Barrak is a once in a life time opportunity for us to make things right. With either Clinton or McCain, we will just be extending the current rut that started back in 1988. I am not sure America can afford another 4 years of that.

The delegate fight: No do-overs...

Cheryl McGraw, Westfield, MA — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 13:48:19 GMT

I find it apalling that the DNC made the decision to not count these votes and then has stood back and watched as it became a campaign issue between the two candidates, with the only result being further division within the Democratic party. Shame on the DNC for this one.

The delegate fight: No do-overs...

ep-ny — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 13:49:18 GMT

yep well Obama just lost us the White House. An example of an impulsive person so bent on his own whims that he just messed up the party and the country. I believe he doesnt care. BUT I am still going to do all I can to get Hillary as close as possable and show the super delagates she will be only hope to bring change in Nov. Everybody please help ok. go to hillaryclinton.com make phone calls donate travel anything you can togeather we may be able to still pull togeather. These 2 states know Hillary tried for them so maybe in Nov. If she is our canadate they will show up. If its Obama they will be th eghost of White House past.

The delegate fight: No do-overs...

Diane from Illinois — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 13:53:36 GMT

Does anyone know what happens to the Super delegates from Florida and Michigan now?

The delegate fight: No do-overs...

CJ — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 13:55:18 GMT

I think no revote is a good thing. Can you imagine the logistical nightmare? Just do a plus one for Clinton and divide the delegates evenly. It doesn't matter either way.

The delegate fight: No do-overs...

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 13:55:20 GMT

The game is over, has been over. Let's end this and move forward behind Obama. And now that the Florida / Michigna re-vote issue is dead sometime after Hillary finally drops out Obama needs to make a couple quick trips to Michigan and Florida before the convention and reassure these folks that their votes are important and their delegates can be seated at the convention. Not sure about Florida but Obama will take Michigan in the race against McCain.

The delegate fight: No do-overs...

Lisa in New Britain, CT — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 13:56:18 GMT

Note the language "if Michigan lawmakers care". I agree, its on THEM. Stop stepping back from your responsibility.

There is a long time before Pennsylvania and I choose to believe people in PA can be open-minded just as people are elsewhere.

Clinton has the edge their (historically on the demographics), I still say Obama can make up some ground there. I'm sure there are voters in PA who feel as I do, that a vote for Clinton is to support her negative tactics. And I'm sure there are voters in PA who can see through all the dust to see Obama's positives. Obviously no one knows now how the State will play out, so we wait to see how people decide in April. But no matter how PA plays out, it is still only one of fifty states in the Nation. Let's try to remember that or else some of us may not feel our votes important in Nov.

Obama 08

The delegate fight: No do-overs...

Mark, Atlanta, GA — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:04:24 GMT

Yeah right, all the Democrats in Florida and Michigan are gonna vote for McCain instead of Obama because of the primary fiasco.

Democrats will still vote for the Democrat nominee plain and simple. A few may stay home in FL and MI but they will be the exception rather than the rule.

The delegate fight: No do-overs...

Mark B Cincinnati Ohio — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:07:07 GMT

this is a nomination process..not an election...DNC makes the rules..\\ Hillary had no problem neglecting Mich and Fla two months ago

time to move on..she cant catch obama she needs to drop out

The delegate fight: No do-overs...

Ian — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:12:09 GMT

voice of reason, PA & deloresrkennedy@comcast.net:
You're arguments are neither fair nor reasonable. You just want Hillary to win irrespective of the rules as they actually were. Despite Billary's best attempt to destroy the Democratic Party with her win-at-all-cost kitchen sink strategy, IT IS OVER!!! The sooner Clintonistas realize this, the better chance the Democratic Party can heal itself in a timely manner from the damage near irreparable the Clintons and the DNC have caused.

The delegate fight: No do-overs...

Lizzy, Hershey, PA — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:19:31 GMT

Democrats in FL and MI that have a problem with their delegates not being seated in Denver need to hold the true perpetrators responsible, their state congressional members and respective governors. When all of these office holders are up for reelection, they can vote them out of office.

It doesn't matter how you slice it, the DNC told them in no uncertain terms their delegates would not be seated if they moved up their respective primary dates. Both state houses chose to thumb their noses at the DNC. The DNC told them the consequences and they chose to do it anyways. They broke the rules, now they suffer the consequences-period. It is unfortunate that the voters in FL and MI have to suffer the consequences as well, but if they don't like the decisions that their elected state officials make, then they can vote them out of office when they are up for reelection.

With respect to the botched primaries,, several million voters may have shown up to vote in them, but there were also several million people who would have normally shown up to vote, but did not go to the polls that day because they were told their votes would not count. I'm tired of hearing that one group of voters count while the other one is over looked.

With respect to Clinton, she signed the pledged agreeing to honor the rule and publicly said she would adhere to the rules during several interviews. Clearly when she thought she was ahead the rules were ok and now that she is behind her words don't mean a hill of beans and it's ok to whine and try to change the rules. Well you don't change the rules in the middle of the game. If you had a problem with the rules, Sen. Clinton, then you should NOT have agreed to them.

I have just put up with 8 yrs of Bush, saying one thing and doing the opposite. Sen. Clinton, you have proven on more than one occasion you are NOT a woman who honors her word. I will not vote to put another liar into the White House.

The delegate fight: No do-overs...

Figueroa Slim — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:20:07 GMT

The party of the people has disenfranchised two entire states. What a hack, insider job. Don't be surprised when the "common man", "working class voter" abandons the party.

Florida already voted. Don't pretend they didn't. Hillary and Slick Barry were on the ballot, and Hillary won soundly. Seat the delegates or lose your base. "Typical white people" - Barack Slick Barry Obama

The delegate fight: No do-overs...

Mad as hell — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:23:34 GMT

*****SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME******

How can Sen. Obama stand at a pudium and explain to all those listening that he wished to 'Unite' this country and make us as one nation ---YET, will not agree to have millions of voters cast their votes in a primary!

HOW.... HOW is this possible?
WHY does he say one thing, and turn around and do another?

WHAT IS HE AFRAID OF !!!!!!!!!!!!!

The delegate fight: No do-overs...

BobW Mendon, NY — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:24:55 GMT

Hillary's obsession with Michigan and Florida didn't start until she realized she needed the votes. Remember that after the New Hampshire primnary, she discounted the whole issue by saying "those primaries don't count anyway".

I find it pathetic and laugable that the Clinton campaign tries to villify Obama when he has stated clearly that he wants to see both states be seated and that he would support whatever decision the DNC made about them. What more does Hillary expect? Of course Obama is not going to support a revote funded by Clinton operatives that will exclude democrats, independents and republicans that would have voted for because they voted in the first primary thinking that otherwise, they would not have an opportunity to participate in the elections. Of course Obama was not going to support a mail-in sceme that was rife with the potention for fraud and exclusion and lastly, Obama is not going to support seating the delegates based on the vote as is.

The delegate fight: No do-overs...

Pete - Albany, NY — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:25:00 GMT

The delegate fight: No do-overs...

Delores Rose-Kennedy, Murfreesboro, TN — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:28:06 GMT

Ian, can you possibily believe that it is a good thing to not have Florida and Michigan voters have a voice?? You just want Obama to win that is obvious as it is obvious that I DO NOT. I will not vote for a person who would be willing to listen to a Rev. Wright spew HATE for 20 years. The voters have a right to have their votes count. That is only fair.

The delegate fight: No do-overs...

jerry/corpus christi texas — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:33:17 GMT

The rules were written and the rules were tossed in the trash. This goes to show when it comes t the rules,democrats have nothing but shame.

This goes to show you liberals in Florida and Michigan that the DNC cares very little about your problems.

Time to join the republican party!

The delegate fight: No do-overs...

Paul, Kansas City, MO — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:34:51 GMT

Bad week for McCain, huh? Inside the beltway his gaffe may have been news, but do you really think folks are going to think John McCain doesn't know what he's talking about on Iraq because of a couple slips of the tongue? Gimme a break.

The real story is that while dems were embroiled in Racegate, McCain was walking around Baghdad - with a Northeastern Democrat no less - gladhanding tribal leaders and generals. And in the past ten days McCain has gone up by double digits in head-to-heads over both dems. If that's a bad week, I'll take 52 of them.

The delegate fight: No do-overs...

Kelly (from Pittsburgh) — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:36:09 GMT

The Clinton campaign needs to stop blaming Obama for the lack of revotes. The fact is that any revote was bound to disenfranchise somebody and make future DNC rules disrespected. Obama is just playing by the rules and wants what is fair. It is Hillary who is trying to change the rules. She wanted revotes to extend her chances not for the peoples' sake. But I firmly believe that if there were revotes Obama would win Michigan and close the gap in Florida.Floridians and Michigan will get their all important constitutionally guaranteed say in the general election.

Even though I support Obama, I agree that caucuses are not as fair as primaries. The DNC should overhaul their procedures and go to a popular vote decision. SO to should the general election process. A long time has past since we needed to be concerned about candidates not campaigning in certain states because they are smaller. Every citizen has complete access to candidates records in modern society. I've had enough of 40% of Dems in a red states having no say (and vice versa). Everyone's vote should count the same.

The delegate fight: No do-overs...

Roger, Canton, MI — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:36:19 GMT

This is simple. The DNC made their decision already. Now that the money has been spent in my home state (where we're already having a ton of financial problems)... there is no reason to spend more money on a 2nd election. The DNC made their bed so now it's time to lie in it. The votes don't count... no delegates. After that snub, I decided to give my votes to the republicans since they didn't seem to have a problem with the change in primary date.

Furthermore... Hillary Clinton supported the snub in Michigan. She didn't campaign here, but being the underhanded person that she is... left her name on the ballot. Playing both sides of the fence, heh? She even said earlier that the missing delegates wouldn't matter (when she figured she'd have an easy win over Obama). But now that she's behind and sees that Obama is a bigger challenge than she expected, she suddenly wants to be a voice for Michigan and Florida. If she REALLY cared about the issues of my state, she should have spoken up back in December or early January. I have no respect for her and hope that her campaign will fail miserably.

The delegate fight: No do-overs...

Robert Catalano, Salem, OR — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:41:10 GMT

When Michigan and Florida decided to move their primaries to an earlier date they had been warned by the Democratic Party that they ould face sanctions. One of the sanctions was that their delegates would not be counted in the primaries. ALL of the Democrats who were running for President agreed to abide by the party's decision and did not campaign there. The whole situation was caused by the Michigan and Florida Democrats who wanted their states votes to count for more than they had in the past. They gambled that the party would not respond or sanction them, and they lost the gamble. Now, Hillary, is the lone Democratic candidate who wants to break the agreement and overturn the party's sanctions because she is behind. Anyone ever heard the response "Well, that's different" from anyone who is losing an argument based on logic? Don't think for a moment Hillary gives a d*** about the people in Florida and Michigan. She only cares about winning. The only thing she'll change in Washington is her address from the Senate Office Building to 1600 Pensylvania Ave.

The delegate fight: No do-overs...

Brian, Cedar Hill, TX — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:41:28 GMT

If the DNC doesn't think it's important for all votes to be counted then they're just as cockeyed and underhanded as the repubs. If this continues, I guess my vote isn't important to them either.

The delegate fight: No do-overs...

Independent Voter, Stuart, FL — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:46:38 GMT

deloresrkennedy@comcast.net

Do you live in FL? If you do not how do you proclaim to be such an expert on FL? If you do live in FL. then you should know that Hillary Clinton did indeed campaign the Sunday prior to the election at the Lucky Strike Lanes on South Beach. This was reported in the Sun-Sentinel newspaper.

I voted but I voted on Amendment 1 only a property tax reform issue. I knew that votes for Candidates would not be counted. The ruling set by the DNC and approved by all candidates should be upheld. Don't change the rules in the middle of the game.

If Obama had ads running in FL I never heard them other than what was on the National Media and were seen or heard everywhere the broadcast could be seen or heard.

So please if you have specifics on FL only broadcasts by Obama please specify.

And for the record I have not decided who I will vote for as of this writing so I have no dog in this fight. But I would like to see fairness and accuracy in comments.

The delegate fight: No do-overs...

RENEA,PLYMOUTH,MI — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:46:44 GMT

HILLARY SPEAK:SHAME ON YOU DEMOCRATICS FOR THINKING THAT BECAUSE MI AND FL WILL NOT HAVE DO OVERS THAT I CONSIDER THE NOMINATION OF OBAMA ILLEGITIMATE.WHERE AS IF THE SUPERDELEGATES PICK ME OVER OBAMA BECAUSE HE HAS MOST PLEDGED DELEGATES AND POPULAR VOTE THAT WOULD BE LEGITIMATE.SHAME ON YOU DEMOCRATICS FOR NOT THINKING THAT I CAN JUSTIFY ANY THING I WANT TOO!

The delegate fight: No do-overs...

StevO, Denver — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:47:24 GMT

What's math got to do with it? HRC doesn't care about the numbers because she is way behind in delegates, popular vote and states. Now if the shoe was on the other foot...! She is already posturing for the back room deals and how the Clinton machine can sway the Super D's.

This is going to get ugly and I'm afraid it will be heartbreaking for the Democratic Party.

Obama O-Eight