The delegate fight: History lesson

turnip — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 13:15:37 GMT

20-13=7

19-13=5????

You mean 19-14.

The delegate fight: History lesson

turnip — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 13:21:27 GMT

The Stupak proposal is no different than any other calculus without a revote. Contrived and subject to criticism because the 47 to Clinton, 36 to Obama is pretty random since the election they are based on is bogus. Who knows how many of the "uncommited" were actaully Edwards of Dodd or Richardson supporters, so assigning them arbitrarily to Obama is as patently unfair as assigning any total to Clinton based on an unsanctioned election.

The delegate fight: History lesson

Blake, Denver, CO — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 13:25:00 GMT

"My take on it is a lot of Senator Obama's supporters want to end this race because they don't want people to keep voting"

Its not that they shouldn't vote... it's that its a waste of time unless Hillary wins by historical margins, which is in reality, impossible. Its time to unite as Democrats and go after McCain.

Democrats '08!!!

The delegate fight: History lesson

HP Boston — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 13:32:33 GMT

What he had was 90% of the AA VOTE.

The delegate fight: History lesson

CitizenJ — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 13:34:18 GMT

I always find it amusing that the fascist party who has trampled over our democracy and our Constitution for the past 8 years is always scared of saying DemocratIC. It is the DemocratIC voters. The DemocratIC party.

The Republican leadership is built of lies, war, fear, and cronyism.

The delegate fight: History lesson

JEssica — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 13:43:58 GMT

So it is official.

OBAMA WON TEXAS!!!

More delegates means a WIN!!!

Spin that one CLINTON.

oh yea, and THANK YOU MISSISSIPPI for MORE delegates for Obama!!!

And for splitting the delegates in Michigan and Florida, that seems fair. Clinton said there was "no way" that the dems would go into the general without the delegates from Michigan or FLorida, so here ya go. Now they can be seated.

NO REVOTE.

Rules are rules.

We know HRC likes to LIE and CHEAT, but not the rest of us.

NO REVOTE.

MORE DELEGATES.
MORE STATES.
MORE POPULAR VOTE.

Obama 08

The delegate fight: History lesson

jerry/corpus christi texas — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 13:46:08 GMT

You liberals are a hoot (quoting Bill Clinton)

While John McCain is heading for the White House, you liberals have been slinging mud and making up lies and basically have no plan to fix whatever problem there is in this country.

It will be Howard dean and the democratic party that will destroy their chances in 2008.

And it will be The Clinton's that will destroy the Democratic party in 2008!

The delegate fight: History lesson

Mark Murray — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 13:46:55 GMT

Turnip, thanks for the catch. Yes, 14. It has been changed.

The delegate fight: History lesson

observer — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 13:53:52 GMT

First Read crew--in light of the Mississippi and Texas results, and additional superdelegates announcing, could you please post an updated count?

The delegate fight: History lesson

Elizabeth Woodyard — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 14:03:57 GMT

Isn't Hillary the candidate who proclaimed ot Katie Couric that this whole thing would be over on Super Tuesday? Letting everyone vote wasn't important then, I suppose. I can't keep up.

The delegate fight: History lesson

Confused — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 14:09:47 GMT

How is this for a history lesson: Those prior nomination fights going to the convention were dramatically different from this one on many levels. Those Primary fights did not happen on live 24/7 television, not to mention we now have the internet with instant access to information and opinions. Previous primaries were conducted almost in a vacum where not a whole lot of people (minus the political junkies that is) really paid much attention. THIS primary has been made more public than any other election in our country's history. That said, if Senator Clinton were to somehow get the nomination at the convention it would be seen as theft live on TV with millions more watching and commenting in the blogoshere (I hate that term but it is a recognized one). On the flip side the Senator Clinton faithful have such blinders on that many of them actually think she is in the lead and will think they were robbed as well. Either way the Democratic party is going to really piss off a very large portion of its base. Gov. Dean is partly to blame since he has failed to show real leadership as the head of the DNC, after the Florida and Michigan primaries he should have stated firmly that they would not be seated at the convention, rather than waffle and say he would let the candidates and states figure it out (leaders ... well they lead and this is not leadership). Thank you Senator Clinton, you have done what no Republican could have ever done - you have ensured that Senator McCain will win the WH in November.

As for Senator Clinton running in 4 years.... that is not going to happen. Democrats will (rightfully) place the blame on her and her husband for the fact that the Democrats having lost an election that they should not have been able to lose.

First read - please let me know if I have the facts wrong and please do really study how this primary fight is alot different from previous ones.

The delegate fight: History lesson

Blaine — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 14:24:18 GMT

The better campaign has earned the most delegates, not to mention the better candidate. On every tangible and logistical level, Barack Obama has outperformed Hillary Clinton. And this is coming from a John Edwards supporter.

The delegate fight: History lesson

Michelle Zee — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 14:29:35 GMT

Good point...Elizabeth Woodyard!!!

She was not worried then about everyone voting. I don't understand why she is telling the citizens, Obama is stopping people from voting or disenfranchising them? I can't keep up either!

I understand a Senator may be powerful or have some power, but Obama does not have the power to tell states what to do. Besides, he is up against a tough political Clinton machine (remember).

The delegate fight: History lesson

tom clark — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 14:46:21 GMT

what? why not vote? there are only about 120 votes separating the candidates. its not impossible. improbable, maybe...but not impossible. and then you have the problem of the simple fact that the Democratic Party has set up a system that insures that a close primary season will see the eventual nominee selected by the super-delegates, not by the popular vote. that is what the party rules say. that is the system in place. its not the most votes, or the most pledged delegates gotten in the open primaries that will decide the nominee...it is those considerations coupled with the votes of the super-delegates....and that is the situation. of course some Obama supporters would like to see it over now, but it is not over....it is still undecided...and will be until the convention...and that's the way it is. Obama himself has said that Clinton should continue to campaign as long as she wants to...it is her right...and Obama recognizes that fact.

The delegate fight: History lesson

Confused — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 14:48:25 GMT

Michelle Zee and Elizabeth Woodyard, you are correct. Senator Clinton really didn't care about any primaries after Feb 5 back when she just KNEW that it would be over by that time and she would be crowned. Where was all the outrage from Senator Clinton back when the DNC (and key members of her own staff) decided to strip Florida and Michigan of their delegates for moving up the primaries? The truth is that Senator Clinton really doesn't care about anyone but herself and her own ambition and power. The Clinton faithful will want to burn me for such heresy but it is the truth. Actions speak louder than words and Senator Clinton's actions have spoken volumes about her willingness to say and do anything to get power.

The delegate fight: History lesson

KP — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 14:52:02 GMT

I thought that MSNBC stated that the poll results that purportedly stand for the proposition that Obama suffered "no harm" from the Rev. Wright comments over sampled African Americans. If the pollsters did over-sample African Americans, it should come as no surprise that he suffered "no harm." What the polls didn't do is look at those who would have been most offended and least persuasded by his nice, but solution-less, speech on race. In addition, the polls did not address Obama's later, but not reported, lie that he would have left the church had Rev. Wright stayed on. This statement by Obama cannot be a truthful statement when Rev. Wright's comments were years old, Obama had been going to the church for years, Obama knew about the comments for years, Obama put him on his campaign staff, and only recently did Rev. Wright "retire." He had years to leave the church and yet makes this comment only after being (reluctantly) called out by the media and only after Hillary honestly stated that she would not have had Wright as her pastor. Hillary's Bosnia-slip was, to be sure, false, but so is this. I guess the media has its preferences for "truthiness." Also, I don't understand how the media keeps saying, "What if Superdelegates hand the nomination to Sen. Clinton?" or "What if Superdelegates decide this thing?" Does the media really think the public is that stupid? Neither Obama nor Clinton will have received enough "pledged" delegates come the convention. The only way EITHER of them gets nominated is with Superdelegates.

The delegate fight: History lesson

Confused — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 15:10:11 GMT

tom clark, I don't think anyone is saying that the election should not go on. The problem arises from the tone of the campaign. Senator Clinton has been becoming more and more negative which will only hurt the party and to be honest the tone is not really helping her to make her case either.

The election should and will go on, the difference will be whether or not the party is damaged or strengthened in the process.

The delegate fight: History lesson

Diane from Illinois — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 15:13:34 GMT

HP in Boston: I'm afraid your showing your racist card this morning. The fact that Hillary will win 90% of the WHITE vote in Pennsylvania is okay, then? Can't have it both ways, dear.

The delegate fight: History lesson

Hyder Ginwalla — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 15:38:12 GMT

Total pledged delegate touching 2025 or whatever just too technical... I think it is the leader of the primaries and caucuses pledged delegate winning tally... It got to be the leader and not the 'winner'... since we are talking, choosing a leader...

Hillary burning unnecessarily... may be her atonement of past since... She has been damaged badly of her Bosnia lies and her credibility has taken a nose dive... I think her chances aren't even 5%... but then the people with money are crazily pragmatic. They must have realized by now and start to abandon her sinking ship...

Hilary's campaign flawed... she ignored caucuses and small states... mismanaged funds... and eventually lost her cool and is making a fool of herself by behaving the way she is... kicking and fussing like a child. And BTW we @ the mass media faculty of Vikram University, Ujjain [the old Greenwich] and we are 10.5 hours ahead.

The delegate fight: History lesson

Gosh darn independent (GDI) Mi — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 15:41:18 GMT

Well said KP. I think there was a rush on the left to blow past the whole Wright issue. I personally was more offended by the "Typical white person" Comment that did come from Obama, not his pastor. Obama did not leave the church because he agrees (at least on some level) with Rev. Wright. Also I think the Michigan and Florida issue will become a vary big issue. Howard Dean Blew it. He issued the "Death sentence" where as the GOP took only 1/2 the delegates away. HMM Looks like the GOP is running rings around the Democratic Party again.

The delegate fight: History lesson

Nicholas: Minnesota — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 15:45:58 GMT

["My take on it is a lot of Senator Obama's supporters want to end this race because they don't want people to keep voting," Clinton told a local TV station in Billings, Mont.]
--How utterly ridiculous and knowingly not true. One can only imagine if the roles were reversed, what the Clinton argument would by. How typical to play politics.

The delegate fight: History lesson

Concerned citizen-Chattanooga, TN — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 15:47:30 GMT

You know all of this controversy is due to the fact that we have such a close Democartic race. We have two strong candidates, with strong support. If the shoe were on the other foot, and Obama were behind in the pledged delegates, you would be seeing the same thing from his campaign as you do from Clinton's. Either one of the candidates, Clinton or Obama would do anything necessary to get elected. That's what politics is all about. So let's just stop fighting and let the race play out and see who wins.

The delegate fight: History lesson

Sen. Tracy Potter, Bismarck, North Dakota — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 16:10:31 GMT

The party would do well to seat the elected delegates from Florida and Michigan to end the disenfranchisement issue ... but refuse to seat the SuperDelegates from those states as a tip of the hat to having consequences for breaking rules. Take one for the team, SuperDelegates. No one will cry that you're not in Denver (and, of course, you could run for delegate, just like anyone else).

The delegate fight: History lesson

lizzy,seattle,wa — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 16:20:56 GMT

Who says McCain is on his way to the White House????

While I want this to be settled so that the convention can be unified, I'm really done listening to spin that says "be afraid of John McCain".

John McCain is a thousand years old and shows little or no understanding of even the technological tools we'll need to use to solve the larger-than-life mess he helped to create.

While I'm waiting anxiously to finish the Primary and then get into it with McCain, it's pretty clear that he's very vulnerable. If we end this in June, we'll be very able to win the GE.