The battle for Pennsylvania

Gustavo Herrera, Baltimore MD — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 13:49:16 GMT

This is a tough call for Obama. I think the best thing would've been for him to go along with the custom. He can really put Clinton away if he keeps this primary close. But if he stands his ground on this or denigrates Clinton for the payments, he'll lose local support.

Who's the better candidate? Well, that's probably the person who's run the better campaign: http://www.nationalscold.com/2008/04/analysis-judge-obama-and-clinton-by.html

The battle for Pennsylvania

BL, Cincinnati OH — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 13:52:54 GMT

"typically spread out the cash in the days before the election, handing $10, $20 and $50 bills ... Obama's people are telling the local bosses he won't pay ... the Clinton campaign, in contrast, will oblige in forking over the money."

So Obama isn't going to buy people's support and votes, instead wishes to earn it based on his platform and issues ... but Clinton is more than willing to do pay for votes/support.

The battle for Pennsylvania

pa.mntgirl — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 13:53:29 GMT

It is black and gold that are the colors in this house in Northwest PA!!
And we are ALL Obama supporters! Not one person in my extended family...ALL DIE HARD STEELER fans..are Clinton fans!
So there goes that observation!

The battle for Pennsylvania

Stephen, Philadelphia, PA — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 13:54:02 GMT

I am finally happy about this. This is one of the most embarrassing aspects of the Philadelphia election system. Elections are legally bought in Philadelphia. They give out money and food to people for votes. All Legal.

The battle for Pennsylvania

Tim, Reading, PA — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 13:54:43 GMT

While this seems like a tough decision I think Obama needs to stand his ground here. The patronage system is alive and strong in PA unfortunetly, but patronage is also how we ended up with some many dumb-dumbs in the current Administration

The battle for Pennsylvania

TOM TYSKIEWICZ, FOREST HILLS, PA — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 13:58:10 GMT

IN PENNSYLVANIA, ITS CALLED W-A-M (WALKING AROUND MONEY)! OBAMA IS A WORTHY CANDIDATE FOR AN UNWORTHY ELECTORATE!

The battle for Pennsylvania

RH Oregon — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 13:58:24 GMT

The 'custom' of handing out cash is as close to a bribe as you can get. Bravo to Obama for standing on the correct side of this. Hillary will of course buy, beg, steal any votes possible. The Clinton's have always done anything to win, anything..

The battle for Pennsylvania

Nashville_fan — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:02:33 GMT

I think that a change is gonna come - with or without "street money". If a person is able to change their allegiance based on a $20 payout and still sleep at night, well then I guess it doesn't matter how they vote anyway.

The battle for Pennsylvania

csh, IL — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:02:47 GMT

All I know is that he better win PA, after outspending Hillary there by 3 to 1. If he can't win this big, critical state after all the time and money he has spent here, he is going to have a LOT of explaining to do. And no democrat can win in November unless they can win PA.

Yes, we can. - UGH

No, you can’t. Not without the 12 Million plus who have voted for Hillary. And believe me, Hillary supporter are so furious with the unfair attacks against Hillary (by the press, by Obama and his supporters) that we may very well sit this election out if she is not the nominee.

And if we do, Obama cannot win.

The battle for Pennsylvania

BJ, CA — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:03:24 GMT

Take that money and give it to poor..
kids that could use it for education and
people that need to buy medicine...
Way to GO OBAMA!!!!!!

The battle for Pennsylvania

American Voter — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:05:31 GMT

Philadelphia - corrupt from day one!

The battle for Pennsylvania

TEP, Tampa, FL — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:06:39 GMT

Geez...pay for votes now. What next? We need a one victory for Barack; get this over with and unite against McCain.

The battle for Pennsylvania

TR — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:15:06 GMT

http://www.jedreport.com/2008/04/hillary-clint-4.html

Here's WHY we cannot have Hillary in the White House, it is a FACT she is a LIAR

The battle for Pennsylvania

PA Voter — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:16:03 GMT

People act like this would be news to Obama. He, as myself, come out of the South Side of Chicago and believe me, this is not news, this is common practice.

If Obama doesn't pay, Hillary and her PA Machine will. Somewhat like how they were willing to pay for the revote in Michigan....if you can't win it, buy it.

I applaud Obama for saying he won't pay. He is trying to change the way things work. This may be too much of a culture shock in Philly, however, and I am hopeful someone who is unaffiliated with his campaign comes to town flush with cash April 22nd.

The battle for Pennsylvania

CMG, PP, FL — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:17:27 GMT

Excuse me? I read
"Flush with payments from well-funded campaigns, the ward leaders and Democratic Party bosses typically spread out the cash in the days before the election, handing $10, $20 and $50 bills to the foot soldiers and loyalists who make up the party's workforce. It is all legal.
THIS IS NOT THE VOTERS AS THEY GO TO THE BOOTH. Goodness! How is that corrupt?

The battle for Pennsylvania

Obama-Pa loss — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:17:30 GMT

I think this is Obamas easy out. He wont win Pa and will not be a small loss so this helps him save face. How open can you get.Well the press has sure done its job. I see the money for Obama stayed on long Hahahahah

The battle for Pennsylvania

boogeyman, mamaroneck, ny — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:17:48 GMT

These individuals who want Obama to dish out $500,000.-$750,000. are the ones who'll be pocketing most of the money. They'll probably hire about 300 people and pay them the minimum possible, while they'll keep the rest, that's why we call them FAT CATS.

The battle for Pennsylvania

Bill Johnson, Anaconda, Montana — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:17:49 GMT

Got Cash?

An honest man!! At last, someone who knows right from wrong in politics.

I am so honored to support Senator Obama

The battle for Pennsylvania

RENEA,PLYMOUTH,MI — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:19:03 GMT

HILLARY HAS EVERY CORRUPT POLITICAL MACHINE IN THAT STATE BEHIND HER.IF SHE DOES NOT WIN BIG IN THAT STATE CSH OF IL HOW CAN SHE WIN ANYWHERE? AFTER ALL BIRDS OF A FEATHER FLOCK TOGETHER!

The battle for Pennsylvania

the Pajama Pundit — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:19:11 GMT

Anybody from Pittsburgh knows that it's the "Iggles" (Eagles) vs. the "Stillers" (Steelers).

I just want this to be over now - as I think most Americans do.

http://thepajamapundit.com/

The battle for Pennsylvania

Stephen, Philadelphia, PA — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:20:49 GMT

The traditional practice is they give the money to democrat committee officials. Local committee officials are also usually the judge of elections (quirk in PA law allows them to hold both positions even though there is a conflict of interst). This "walking around money" is for there position as committee men. Then in their capacity to as judge of elections, they "help" the electorate vote for the right candidate and let them campaign within the polling place

The battle for Pennsylvania

donna, pgh., pa. — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:22:46 GMT

The Los Angeles Times: "Flush with payments from well-funded campaigns, the ward leaders and Democratic Party bosses typically spread out the cash in the days before the election, handing $10, $20 and $50 bills to the foot soldiers and loyalists who make up the party's workforce. It is all legal -- but Obama's people are telling the local bosses he won't pay. That sets up a culture clash, pitting a candidate who promises to transform American politics against the realities of a local political system important to his presidential hopes.”

-Los Angeles Times

I agree with Barack on this one. Paying campaign employees who have put their lives on hold for months on end is one thing. Handing out 10, 20, and 50 dollar bills, to volunteers, sounds sleazy, smacks of bribery, and buying votes.

I have volunteered many times, for many causes. At one such time, I served as the President of my PTA. If the Superintendent of Schools had ever tried to give me a $50 tip for my efforts, I would have been insulted, and offended.

For those of you accusing Obama of trying to buy votes in Pa., once again you have been proven wrong.

Pulling for Obama '08

The battle for Pennsylvania

lee, sarasota — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:25:04 GMT

I do not see anything on first read about Obama's big donors. Why? The article on MSNBC titled "Big Donors Are Among Obama's Backers" was rated 2.5. Well I rated it 5 because the raters are Obama supporters who don't want anyone to know who backs their candidate. We hear all about the Clinton donors (I give 10.00 every two weeks as I am retired on a fixed income but really believe in her and have never before been able to donate to a campaign and have always voted for the least bad apple)but not about the billionaires who bundle for Obama. Fake from the beginning and continues to be a fake and liar. Ok media, why don't you do you job?

The battle for Pennsylvania

Frits, Curacao — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:25:37 GMT

So the USA is a Banana republic after all

The battle for Pennsylvania

MK,MO — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:25:57 GMT

csh, IL spews forth / "And believe me, Hillary supporter are so furious with the unfair attacks against Hillary (by the press, by Obama and his supporters)"

what unfair attacks? stating unflattering facts about the 'dishonest duo' of bill and hillary does not constitute 'unfair attacks'.

I guarantee that you can't provide an example of even one 'unfair attack'.

hillary supporters are just mad because their gal is getting exposed for the deceptive lar she is.

The battle for Pennsylvania

Mister Anderson (The Matrix) — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:27:11 GMT

I think it's a GREAT thing that he won't pay for votes. How big of a blow will it be to his credibility if he was to win PA by handing out "walking around money"? Hillary will immediately go to NC and IN can claim he bought votes, and McCain will definitely use it in the fall. It's better to lose with diginity in PA (under 10 points) and close her out in IN and NC.

The battle for Pennsylvania

campdog — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:27:43 GMT

If Obama changes his position here it won't be the first time he has. When it comes to Principle vs. Practical Obama has come down on the side of Practical time after time.

Made a pledge to McCain to make use of public funds. Learns that it would be more practical to use contributions....changes his mind.
Made a point of declaring that we should be opening doors and channels through which we might begin a dialogue with our enemies and yet distances himself from President Carter as he prepares to meet with Hammas because it isn't practical to give the Jewish community the impression that he may be open to a Palastinian point of view.
Makes a point of telling all who will listen that he is not running as the "black" candidate but on recognising that his racial conection gives him a practical (9/1) advantage with members of a certain race and suddenly "Race Doesn't Matter" becomes "Race Does Matter".
Obama declares he is not a Washington insider and that he rejects the old ways of politics but when looking for support he turns to and gets the support of Kennedy, Kerry, Pelosi, Rockefeller and a host of hard core Washington insiders.
The list goes on and on....

So here we are.....popular votes are at stake.....My money is on his finding some way to rationalize the practical over the principle once again.

The battle for Pennsylvania

Diane from Illinois — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:27:57 GMT

Hey Voters from PA Blogging Today:

How is this Clinton Columbian deal playing out in PA? Do people actually see that even though Bill made the $800,000 for speeches OUTSOURCING American jobs, that Hillary still BENEFITS from this as they have a joint bank account? Since PA is hard hit with unemployment, are people REALLY payign attention or is this a simple black & white issue? Any and all answers welcome!

The battle for Pennsylvania

Lisa — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:30:09 GMT

This doesn't even sound right. No wonder there's a big push with Pennsylvania. They want to be bought. What a tradition to have. This is crazy. This puts Obama in a bad spot and I hope he can decide what the best thing to do is. As for you Clinton supports they better go out there and get that 10, 20 or how much ever the dollar amount she will be handing out because she won't do the right thing for our country.

The battle for Pennsylvania

Thevaneljournal.com — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:33:16 GMT

http://www.thevaneljournal.com/

This is a repugnant prostitution of the democratic process and I hope he stands his ground, and if that means taking a loss in PA, so be it.

Way to go Sen. Obama!

The battle for Pennsylvania

lee, sarasota — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:33:28 GMT

The MSNBC article also talks about the gifts given to these Obama supporters so don't talk about Hillary buying votes. The article trys to say these Hedge Fund people are not asking for anything in return. OK, believe that and I can try to sell you the Brooklyn Bridge. Obama is no different than any other politican. He just really lies about himself. I have not heard Hillary espouse these same lies. She knows that it takes small changes to make a big difference. Thinking otherwise is naive.
But Obama promises the moon knowing full well he can't make a dent in Washington politics but will say anything to get what he feels is his due.

The battle for Pennsylvania

DL VT — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:34:35 GMT

If a volunteer gets paid for his\her services is it still considered volunteering. You would think the American people could find a few more families to draw our leaders from for the past 20 years. Its time for a change.

The battle for Pennsylvania

lee, sarasota — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:39:50 GMT

I am sure all you Obama supporters will read the article in the Los Angeles Time but will not read the article on MSNBC web (hardly a Clinton supporter) titled "Big Donors Are Among Obama Backers". You want to believe in fairy tales. The heads of the hedge funds are the new billionaires.

The battle for Pennsylvania

Yeah! — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:40:40 GMT

Oh bah mah! 2008

The battle for Pennsylvania

Mark, VA — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:40:40 GMT

PA will be at least a 10% victor for Clinton. Just like Ohio, the polls being reported in the mainstream media are making it seem closer than it is.

The battle for Pennsylvania

MR — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:41:46 GMT

It is frightening to know that the entire primary may fall on the laps of corrupt politicians and voters! Wat to go AMERICA!

The battle for Pennsylvania

Pacheck, Huntington Beach, Ca. — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:42:23 GMT

If the foot soldiers of Trannsylvania need to spread small cash around to grease the wheels, so be it. Some things ar not expected to "change" right away. Buy those dogs off.

The battle for Pennsylvania

christian — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:42:38 GMT

csh,

Please describe these "unfair attacks" that you speak of?? PLEASE. Are they unfair beause they are, in fact, truthful and it hurts? She's had high negatives for a very long time, there is nothing new here..

The battle for Pennsylvania

40 Years in the Clean DemNPL — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:45:46 GMT

Local custom? Vote buying is a custom? Kind of like spouse abuse is simply a cultural tradition of the Yanomamo. Save the money and let the machine carry PA for Hillary. $50 probably buys a Today show spot in Missoula seen by 5,000 people. Pretty sure that the walking-around guys don't have that kind of reach.

The battle for Pennsylvania

Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VA — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:46:20 GMT

It is such an embarrassment to have Hillary Clinton associated with the black and gold. Sigh.

The battle for Pennsylvania

squintz, philly, pa — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:48:29 GMT

OBAMA IS RIGHT NOT TO PAY. He has more volunteers on the ground BY FAR - they are everywhere, like Jehovah's Witnesses. I haven't seen any Clinton people and all of my friends, in Philly and the burbs, have had Obama volunteers at the door. The Philly machine is totally broken, Nutter won without them and now Nutter is in charge and trying to lead them and everyone is just as dazed and confused as could be. Tough cookies, I say. The city (which is not all that different from other crooked big cities, mind you) is in a reform mindset right now and there is no way these paid folks are going to do any good in the face of such heavy activism. He'll win the yuppies handily and no amount of politicking is going to lessen his share of the AA vote by much, although he won't get the standard 90% he's been pulling.
Obama will win PA, Obama-Pa loss. Which is a REALLY creative name, by the way. Ha. Seriously, press, you need to get over here and do some research. You are going to be STUNNED when he beats her. Har har har. Go Phils.

The battle for Pennsylvania

Matthew, Phila, PA — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:49:20 GMT

This isn't pay for people's votes. It's paying people to go out and drop leaflets, get people to the polls, etc. There's a big difference.

To those who say Obama has to keep it close in PA and that will mean a loss for Hillary, I say that PA has become a MUST WIN for Obama. His campaign initially acted as if they were going to write off the state, but he has been campainging hard and spending harder. If he loses, even by 1 or 2 points, with the he is outspending Hillary, it will show once and for all that he is not capable of closing the nomination or winning the big states we will need in November.

The battle for Pennsylvania

Obama'sDealer — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:50:48 GMT

Obama is pocketting all the money for his fix.

The battle for Pennsylvania

jesse St.Paul Minnesota — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:55:19 GMT

I just wonder how much clinton money has made its way into the pockets of the Gov Of Pennsylvania Ed Rendell,i'll bet it's more then a years salary.Sen.Obama refuses to pay this extortion.Sound moral judgment.This sounds to me like mob elections,you pay or you get rubbed.

The battle for Pennsylvania

Kathy Corey, Boston, MA — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:59:46 GMT

My father was a life-long Teamster..a member of Local 25 in Boston. My father was also a Seabea in WW2 in the Pacific. He would be shocked to see the Teamsters endorsing and supporting Barack Obama. Barack Obama remained mute when the US was vilely attacked by Reverend Wright. Wright is not about racism..he is about anti-Americanism. I'm glad that my father is not here to see the union that he loved supporting someone who cannot be counted on to stand up for American. Shame on you.

The battle for Pennsylvania

nocity — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 15:03:06 GMT

Obama is a farce.

The battle for Pennsylvania

Grace — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 15:03:25 GMT

I think the point is, Obama doesn't NEED to pay the machine -- he's got a boatload of volunteers who will happily do the work for free.

So on one hand, it's a little bit dodgy, this "street money" concept. But if you're looking at the people getting the "street money" as campaign workers, then yeah, I see how it works. But the stumbling block here is that the Philly ward leaders expect Obama to pay anyway, even though he has volunteers who will fulfill the station others have had to pay for.

Which is why the ward leaders are now breaking it down into "street money goes to locals, it's important, it's a tradition". Their machine and its local-paying ways is being threatened by the Obama volunteers, who are giving it away for free, the lunatics.

From Obama's standpoint, this must seem insane. Why pay what must be tens of thousands of dollars for something that he can and will be able to get for nothing at all?

The battle for Pennsylvania

lee, sarasota — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 15:04:51 GMT

TEP Tampa How old are you? No wonder you are an Obamaite. You apparently believe in fairy tales. This has been going on since the first vote. And if you believe Obama's group is not doing it, you are extremely naive.

The battle for Pennsylvania

U.S. Soldier in D.C. — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 15:05:01 GMT

I am so sick of Hillary or (Billary) that it make me throw up, yes she will do anything to get elected, she thinks the White House is due Her; Wrong, she can not be trusted with anything; send the Clintons back to Arkansas..

The battle for Pennsylvania

Robert Goldman, Philadephia, PA — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 15:05:34 GMT

Not sure street money will make a difference.
the "Machine" in Philly is for Clinton:
The current Philly mayor (Nutter) and former mayor (Rendell) are blanketing TV with calls that Hillary is ready on Day One.
But the people might not be listening:
I drove through a busy intersection in Philly yesterday, a few women with "Honk for Hillary" signs.
No one was honking.
RG in Philly.

The battle for Pennsylvania

PEM59 — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 15:10:28 GMT

I saw this when I worked the polls as a volenteer in Lancaster, PA

The volenteer for the other cantidate and I worked hard, engaging the voters, passing out info, etc. We respected each other. (He referred to me as being for "the other team"). About 10:00 amsomeone who was hired to work the polls for the "other team" was dropped off. We both quickly agreed that he was useless. He was just there, at best, to show a body.

Unfortunately, the cantidate from "my team" lost, but we had a good time.

The battle for Pennsylvania

PulSamsara — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 15:13:17 GMT

Don't pay a dime. If these people don't understand that this gets to the very core of the changes that America needs... then Barack Obama doesn't need their votes. We are not a banana republic.

If these people want to effect change - they would take a stand and refuse such payouts !

The battle for Pennsylvania

TR — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 15:54:41 GMT

I would like to see this vote count talked amount more since Clinton's keep pushing the popular vote and how close they are

Could MSNBC do some investigation on the popular vote estimates??

The battle for Pennsylvania

Deborah Greenlawn, NY — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 15:55:40 GMT

When I was little, I remember my Dad saying
TRUMAN was criticized for being 'just another WARD
HEELER' How long ago was THAT?

Sen. Clinton fits so well with the old, old, antiquated political machines in Ohio and PA. Is this 'change' and 'solutions'? Still paying people to be 'for' a candidate through these quaint,
historical set-ups? (I can smell the cigar smoke!)
Consign this system to school Politics and Govt. textbooks.
Obama's volunteers don't need to be paid to canvas. As it should be.

The battle for Pennsylvania

candical — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 16:01:14 GMT

When is a "volunteer" not a volunteer? answer:When they are in Pa. Good for you Obama!!!

The battle for Pennsylvania

Cynthia, former Philadelphian in VA now — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 16:02:18 GMT

Besides the ethical issue...
WHY would Obama PAY for votes in a city (& state for that matter)that he is likely to lose (though hopefully by the briefest of margins if at all). And in fact, those voters are going to vote for whomever they want and I seriously doubt the workers stop to ask whose name is on that $20 bill...so I see nothing to gain by Obama putting himself on their level. Why should he help buy gas for Hillary voters in Philly??

The battle for Pennsylvania

Andress--CO — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 16:17:37 GMT

If it's a bribe to hand out cash to your workers, then what is it when people hand out cash to a political candidate? A bribe? No,no,no, let's call it a contributiong...ok, gottcha.

This is petty and stupid. There is nothing wrong to with showing appreciation for hard work--from the lowliest worker to the man at the top--everyone needs a little appreciation, and motivation.

The battle for Pennsylvania

Ryan, Seattle — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 16:20:00 GMT

I think it's a good decision. It's right on track & consistant with his message throughout the entire campaign.

It would be used AGAINST him if he did take that route. All the filthy dirty politicians want him to roll around in their pig pen so they can attack him on "their level".

And Clinton supporters, do yourselves a favor and vet your damn candidate. Let me guess, you ignore reading ANY bad press about Hillary because it is written by the "Biased sexist" media?

How sad you are, reminds me of Bush's argument about going around the "media filter", perhaps China's media system is more to your liking? Tell the people not what are the facts, but instead what they want to hear.

The battle for Pennsylvania

Pete, Pittsburgh, PA — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 16:43:06 GMT

This one Steelers fan who supports Obama; heck, Franco and the Bus support Obama; who in the world suggested that Steelers fans were for Clinton...yuck! I think they meant that the Browns were for Clinton; that would be about right.

The battle for Pennsylvania

Michael, Elkhart, IN — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 16:54:34 GMT

Obama is right to fight this. It'll be interesting to see what Hillary does if Obama sticks to his principles. Demographically, Philly is the kind of area where Obama has done well in all season long.

Apparently it's time for change in Philly too.

The battle for Pennsylvania

Not_That _Woman_Ever! — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 17:00:09 GMT

To all the Democrats who say they will vote Republican, if their preferred candidate is not nominated, I ask this: Are the PRINCIPALS in which you live by, vote by, and teach your children sold SO cheaply? Can your convictions as to the direction this country should go, moving forward, be purchased for so little?

If you answered yes to either question; go. You are not the type to move this country forward anyway. You are products of identity politics, with little, if any principals to begin with.

The battle for Pennsylvania

Babs-W, Belmont, MA — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 17:05:24 GMT

Obama is trying to bring about change with the help of the people of the USA, which includes voters in Philadelphia. Maybe this small step on his part, which underlines his effort to bring about change, will encourage some of he "undecideds" to vote for him on April 22nd.