Here we go

Todd, Rochester, NY — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:05:35 GMT

There is no way you can include Michigan in the vote totals, Obama wasn't even on the ballot. And you can't count caucus states this way either, the Clintons are now disenfranchising the voters of all of those states. But I guess the only people that matter in this country are the ones who vote for Clinton.

Here we go

Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VA — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:08:47 GMT

"Even many Clinton supporters believe it’s not a valid measurement."

That pretty much says it all.

Here we go

Stephanopoulos = Shill — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:09:16 GMT

ABC is in the tank for the Clintons. Everyone knows that.

Here we go

Geoff in Brooklyn — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:09:44 GMT

The key from now until May 6 is to REALLY JUST focus on McCain. Really. If Hillary attacks, literally just say "I thought we were supposed to be united against John McCain; I thought that our differences pailed in comparison to the differences with McCain; then why is she attacking me instead of the real problem? We don't affect real change by squabbling."

Then go back to focusing on McCain. Then the story will become: Hillary is negative and selfish. Which is the story.

Here we go

Earl, Meegagoochie, North Carolina — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:11:42 GMT

The Clinton campaign's popular vote analysis is eerily similar to the reasoning used by President Bush to have the US military attack Iraq, reasoning with only selected facts that supports one's position.

Do we really want that kind of President again?

Here we go

L'viller, Lou, KY — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:12:05 GMT

Wow - this is all getting to be quite pathetic.

I'm changing my vote to Obama on May 20 - time for this ridiculousness to end. Isn't this all VERY silly? I thought we all knew the rules before the game began. Reminds me of silly Monopoly games as a kid with my brother - when he would try and cheat to win...but we always caught him in the act.

Here we go

Zeke, Tenley — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:12:22 GMT

What about the 3 caucus states who don't report vote totals? If you're gonna include Florida and Michigan, you gotta estimate those.

Here we go

Jessica, Wisconsin — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:12:41 GMT

Popular vote is not an accurate measurement because of all of the caucuses that are held in the Democratic primary. It would be really nice to see the media portraying this accurately but I guess that is too much to ask. In this party we elect our nominee based on delegates - not popular vote.

Here we go

ABC is a joke — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:12:54 GMT

If Florida and Michigan count, so should the estimate the Wharton professor did of the 800,000 additional votes Obama would have in his "popular vote" column were all the caucus states reported on an individual votes basis.

Here we go

Peoria, IL — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:13:03 GMT

Puke Puke Puke Puke

Here we go

Clinton matters! — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:13:10 GMT

Here we go

Ricky C., Buffalo, NY — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:13:17 GMT

Democrats really struggle when it comes to counting.

Here we go

LK in VA — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:13:36 GMT

We knew she was going to try to get Florida and Michigan. Don't give me the argument that they deserve to be heard. She is breaking the rules and cheating. The typical Clinton style. I could not vote for her under any condition, as so many Democrats I know feel. The thought of Bill lurking around the White house again pointing his finger at everyone is too much. Obama may have some negatives in the fall but she has more!

Here we go

Greg, N.Y. — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:13:40 GMT

Of course, there is apparent buyer's remorse against Clinton, since now she trails by 10% in national polls, so there are a whole lot of people regretting their previous votes and they're Clinton voters.

Here we go

Kym — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:13:45 GMT

This is retarded. I am also amazed by how the pundits often attribute her "untrustworthy" ratings to the bosnia thing. I think they are wrong on this, I think it also has to do with the same week she was forcefully making the argument that Michigan was fair, that it should count (she even went to Michigan that week. No one buys that argument. HE WAS NOT ON THE BALLOT. And if she only won Florida by 10% without Obama campaigning, imagine what the margins would have been with him actively campaigning in that state.

Here we go

Rules should matter-even if you're a Clinton! — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:13:50 GMT

Why do the superdelegates allow this to go on? If any other candidate tried to change the rules in the middle of the game the party leaders would stop the discussion immediately. This lifelong Democrat is about to become an Independant.

Here we go

Brice Sullivan — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:14:16 GMT

There's no way someone can include Michigan, and Florida itself is an unfair measure of success when we know Obama didn't campaign there and was still relatively unknown to those voters. Hillary has proven she'll do or say anything to either win the nomination, or harm Obama's chances in November so she can run again after McCain's one term. Hillary's drug Obama through so much mud, lies and half-truths (South Carolina, Obama is not a muslim "as far as I know," pretending not to understand his "clinging to guns and religion" comment was in reference to how Republicans use divisive issues like guns, gay marriage and abortion to convince middle class Americans to vote against their best economic interests, and telling America that John McCain will be a better commander-in-chief than Obama, etc., etc.). IF HILLARY DOESN'T WIN THE NOMINATION, JOHN MCCAIN BETTER PICK HER FOR HIS VP. SHE'S EARNED IT.

Here we go

Alan, NJ — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:14:51 GMT

Another metric: She leads in electoral college votes with the states she has won. So far, Mrs. Clinton has won states with a total of 219 Electoral College votes, not counting Florida and Michigan, while Mr. Obama has won states with a total of 202 electoral votes and this was before PA's 21 votes. You said you wanted another metric you didn't say it had to be a good one.

Here we go

Harold Smith, Long Beach , Mississippi — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:15:00 GMT

W. Durant said" Great Civilizations are not conquered from external forces, but they collapse from within"

Close to 4 years ago Goerge W. Bush used the tactic of fear, divisive politics to exploit the ignorant and the un-educated to win an election. Now the results have been an economy that's in a recession. Healthcare cost that are out of this world. 45 Million people with no health insurance. A meaning less war. Gas Prices that have gone up almost 3 dollars in 3 years.

Yet still we continue to elect our candidates who use the same approach, who exploits our differences, and who uses fear. The true fall of our civilization will not be islamic terrorist, nor the Chinese, Russians or Iran. The True fall will be because of ourselves.

To be honest I am a Obama supporter, but because of his views,and leadership. I would be a Clinton supporter if she had these same traits, but she wants the office, because of ambition...not for the working man. Obama wants the office to start a trend, I think even he believes he can't change this country in 4 or 8 years..but he will be a catalyst for delivering goverment action back into the hands of the people.

One thing that struck me in the exit polls...The people of Pennslyvania believed Obama was more trustworthy than Clinton, but yet she won. What can be more important than trust. In a marriage that's the most impotant thing. My hypothesis is that with Clinton they trust her to do what she has been doing the whole time, whether to lie..say anything to get elected..some people in this country prefer to look their enemy head on, but because they know her movements..that's better than the fear of getting blindsided..(George W Bush). I have 2 fundamental questions....When did bettering yourself thru education and serving the community turn into eliteism, and Finally...Is this what we want to teach our next generation who want to serve the public that politicians normal course of behavior is to use tactics like these...is that how we want our leaders to serve us. After all we employ our leaders...it is our leaders that shoud fear the people and not the other way around.

Here we go

twocanpete — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:15:01 GMT

http://twocanpete.blogspot.com/
Enough celebrating, let's have a look at that next can of worms.

Here we go

Grace — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:15:16 GMT

This popular vote arguement is a joke...if you do that then you ignore the voters in the causus states. Have their population votes been added in. So what does Hillary want to do disenfranchise them/ The media iscrazy for playing this game along with them. Their was a reason why delegate vote counted and that was because how do you count the popular vote in caucus states

Here we go

Lisa, New Britain, CT YES WE CAN! — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:16:08 GMT

You know, most of us were here and voting when there were the Florida shenanigans with Gore v. Bush in 2000. Well, we saw what the Republicans did...

Now imagine you're an Obama supporter now in 2008 and you find yourself asking...could the Dems stoop lower than the Bush partisans in 2000?

In this case, hopefully our answer is not, "yes we can".

Sad at this in central CT, this may spell the end of my participation in the Dem. party. And yes, I know you don't care about me alone. But I'm quite sure I'm not alone.

When does the cheating stop? What does it say about the process going forward? I am feeling more horrified now with the Dems in 2008 then I was with the Bush forces in 2000. Who would have thought that?

Obama for our best future.

Here we go

j fl — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:16:30 GMT

So why not count all the votes like we are supposed to as a democratic nation? Because some of the men in this country just simply cannot fathom a woman beating a man for the president of the United States. It's a bit too EGO bruising, shall we say.

Here we go

John B, Des Moines, IA — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:16:58 GMT

Almost 170,000 PA Republicans changed their registration to Democratic in order to vote for HRC and get their preferred candidate in the Fall. Obama wasn't even on the ballot in Michigan so of course no one voted for him there. I know in politics you do what you need to in order to win, but this stretches credulity.

Here we go

Matt; Valparaiso, IN — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:17:01 GMT

I can't take this crap anymore. If Hillary were my dog - frothing at the mouth and barking incessantly at things that aren't there - I'd have her put down.

Enough already! The Democratic party is imploding. Howard Dean is ineffective and worthless. ENOUGH ALREADY!!

Here we go

matt — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:17:34 GMT

Last night only gave a psychological boost to Hillary and her chances. She's still screwed without FL and MI, has no cash, and needs another string of huge wins in the Basketball Primaries next month. Not the best position.

http://www.political-buzz.com/

Here we go

Sam, Muncie, Ind. — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:17:35 GMT

I love that Clinton doesn't want to disenfranchise voters … unless those voters didn't vote for her.

How sleazy do you have to be to count an election in Michigan in which no other candidate's name appeared on the ballot?

Here we go

Dan, Madison, WI — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:17:46 GMT

Hillary the Hypocrite.

Leave it to Hillary to go back on the document she signed last year.
In several videos, you can also see Hillary saying Michigan and Florida can not count unless they change their rules to meet the DNC requirements (which they did not).

Here we go

American People, USA — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:17:57 GMT

GO Hillary!!!

You will be a great Madam President.

Here we go

christian — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:18:47 GMT

I say GIVER HER Florida's votes as a good gesture but do NOT allow her to count Michigan. That is an utter travesty if that happens since he name was NOT on the ballot. what a crock of sh*t

Here we go

Pat, Boston, MA — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:18:52 GMT

These scenarios remind me of It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World - remember those hilarious scenes when Milton Berle, Mickey Rooney, Ethel Merman, Phil Silvers, etc. were all trying to figure out a way to pocket the most stolen loot.

Senator Clinton, it's very simple.

If you were against the Iraq War, you should have stood up to President Bush and said so at the time. You didn't.

If you were against not counting Michigan's votes, you should have stood up and said so at the time. You didn't.

Despite all of the spin all over the place last night, you have lost this nomination.

I don't know where the Democratic Party is on this. When are they going to stand up to the Clintons? Why are Bill and Hillary and Terry McAuliffe able to twist and turn everything until it suits them? You cannot win a state where everyone agreed - including you - that it wouldn't count!

You lost. And no matter how much you twist and turn it - you still lost - to Barack Obama.

Here we go

Sharon Stone. — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:18:53 GMT

The people of Michigan and Florida didn't change the primary dates. So is it fair to deny them their right as an American to vote?

Here we go

donna — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:18:56 GMT

Michigan, and Florida = Rogue States

-Domenico Montanaro

That's funny.

Here we go

Margaret, Columbus, Ohio — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:19:26 GMT

Keep ignoring Puerto Rico.

Another 250 mill margin for Hillary.

Here we go

Gregory Peek, Birmingham, Alabama — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:20:09 GMT

If superdelegates overturned the results of the public vote, it would be the death of the Democratic Party. When the Democratic Party officials overturned the results of the public vote in the 1986 Democratic primary for governor of Alabama, it had sufficient legal justification, but it resulted in the next closest thing to the death of the party.

Here we go

B Dub, Raleigh, NC — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:20:27 GMT

someone please explain to me how one can possibly count Michigan considering BARACK OBAMA WAS NOT EVEN ON THE BALLOT? Not to mention that caucus states do not represent an accurate popular vote count either?

Here we go

Teri Busick — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:20:42 GMT

Pennsylvania Site: Clinton 54.3
Obama 45.7

In order for MSNBC to match their rhetoric, you round Clinton's up and Obama's down. That's hardly the way it's taught in school, at least not regular school. No wonder Chuck Todd didn't want to criticize ABC's debate several days ago. Looks to me that 8.6 would be accurate, but you need to have it be a ten point win to keep killing air time. What happened to "anything less than ten, and she will have to think about getting out". MSNBA, ABC...no difference. Just change the figures to match the bull.

Here we go

d for Obama — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:21:14 GMT

she will say anything to win, but theres still 9 more states that needs to vote if is not over. and she still can not win without counting votes from MI & FL. but I delegates decided the "winner" not the popular vote.

Here we go

SHARON,FL — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:21:27 GMT

BARACK CAN NOT CARRY THE BIG STATES WHICH IT TAKES TO WIN IN NOVEMBER....BOW OUT NOW
GIVE DEMOCRATS A CHANCE TO TAKE BACK THE WHITE HOUSE

Here we go

Blake, Devner, CO — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:21:30 GMT

THIS IS ABSURD! I'm tired of this game. Pledged delegates and super delegates nominate candidates... not "popular vote". How can you even print this without explaining to everyone how the "popular vote" disenfranchizes not 1 or 2 states... but 13 STATES!!! All caucus-only states have disproportionatly viewer voters, therefore leading to a less significant popular vote spread. This is ridiculous... not more playing nice... no more distractions... time for our media and our campaigns to get honest. This is over... its time to focus on McCain.

Here we go

Tim, Reading, PA — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:21:36 GMT

*Yawn* can we please get to McCain. Stop moving the goal posts and lets end this.

Here we go

donna — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:21:37 GMT

'Rogue States'

That's a good one. I got a good chuckle out of that. Ron Allen yesterday, and now Domenico today telling it like it is. GREAT.

Here we go

Walter, Columbus, Ohio — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:21:45 GMT

ABC News just continues to diminish its credibility as a legitimate news source. How can you possibly include the Michigan popular vote in your overall popular vote total when it's obvious that Obama's name was not even on the ballot. This coupled with your poor effort at a biased debate is why you've lost a great deal of credibility and respect.

Here we go

not for odrama — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:23:05 GMT

ohhh....hillary by ten!!!...hey!, why is it that obama outspend her by 3 to 1 and lost..what does that say about his economics?.......really has to make you think...

Here we go

Molly — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:23:28 GMT

CONGRATULATIONS HILLARY!!!!!
With your BIG win in PA, you will do well in the remaining states, count in FL & MI votes and you will win the popular vote. The media is now starting to recognize that obama is not the glory guy they have made him out to be - maybe now they will give Senator Clinton the respect she deserves and has earned.
This might be a good time for obama to step aside - "for the good of the party"!

Here we go

Peter Paul — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:23:44 GMT

Spin, Spin, Spin! We'll see how the Clintons spin the upcoming Peter Paul trial this Friday.

Here we go

donna — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:24:24 GMT

Could some of those suburbian white women be Limbaugh's?

Here we go

ron — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:24:31 GMT

Please upadte your prercentages with accurate numberrs it was not 55% to 45%. Put up real numbers fro mthe electrions people and quit rounding them off!
8.5% is not 10%

Here we go

Sick of corruption, sick of the Clintons — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:24:32 GMT

So now, Hillary is saying that she is ahead of the popular vote if you include Michigan. She should make this argument: if Obama had not been on the ballot in any state so far, I would be way ahead!

If I remember correctly, she won a whopping 55% of the vote in Michigan, with Obama not on the ballot. That is real impressive. Every time I think Hillary Clinton cannot possibly sink any lower, I am proven wrong.

Obama in 2008. Integrity matters and the Clintons have none. Just ask their creditors.

Here we go

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:24:38 GMT

Insidious.

Here we go

Carol, Long Valley NJ — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:24:40 GMT

Head to head polling (averaged amongst many separate polls)

Obama leads McCain by 1.2%
McCain leads Clinton by 0.3%

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/national.html

Vote with your head, vote for the economy, vote for jobs.

Vote Democratic 2008 -- don't let the corporations and their Republican stooges win again.

Here we go

K, Portsmouth, VA — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:24:42 GMT

Democratic "leaders" will have a hell of a time getting Democrats to vote in Michigan and (especially) Florida in November if they continue to diss voters in those states now.

Yes, Democratic leaders in both states and at the DNC really, really screwed up. But what sins did rank-and-file voters commit? Why should they be punished by being ignored?

Methinks most of those urging Hillary to step aside now ignore these voters at their peril.

And, after what happened in Pennsylvania yesterday, I wonder whether an awful lot of Democratic "leaders" need to be reminded that what really matters is who can beat McCain in November.

Here we go

Grace — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:24:46 GMT

Final tally

Clinton's Slightly Smaller Win
Though most articles this morning say Sen. Hillary Clinton beat Sen. Barack Obama last night in Pennsylvania by 10 points, the official tally actually shows her margin at 8.6%.

Here we go

skh4450, Chicago, Illinois — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:26:27 GMT

Unbelieveable, but then again, its coming from Hillary's camp, need I say more. I have never seen anything like this in my life. I totally get that politics can be nasty, but Hillary takes this to a new level. I can't stand this woman. The Democrats had better be careful, you're going to a place I don't think you'll like, from voters. If Obama doesn't get the nod, I will be switching to Independent. Try to figure me out in four years! I will be done with the democrats.....DONE!!!

Here we go

diana. — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:27:21 GMT

i forget ,why shouldnt florida count? oh yeah the republican governor decide to move up the date and now we are paying the price. didnt obama say vote "uncommitted" in michigan, so they did.cry baby1

Here we go

Jan — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:27:42 GMT

My question is:
Why wasn't Obama's name on the ballot?

Answer: Because HE took it off.
And why did HE take himself off the ballot?
Who knows?

The fact that HE suddenly took HIS OWN name OFF the ballot (for no apparent reason) makes me believe that his internal polls told him Michigan was going to look like Ohio and Pennsylvania for him.

So, remember? He did that little mini-campaign to have people vote "Uncommitted" to embarass Hillary.

However, embarassingly for BHO, Uncommitted lost to HRC instead.

So, my belief is that he knew he wasn't going to win Michigan and wanted to be able to turn around and whine, "But my name wasn't even on the ballot in Michigan!"

Again, the looming question is WHY Obama made the bad decision to take his own name off the ballot in Michigan?

Why should he be rewarded for attempting to disenfranchise the voters in Michigan?

Here we go

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:28:02 GMT

I get tired of hearing some in the media including Chris Matthews ask the question "why can't Obama knock Hillary out of the race", and make it sound like some kind of weakness regarding Obama's support, etc.

How about we turn the tables.

"Why is it that Hillary can't knock Obama out of the race"?

Here we go

Sue in La — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:29:33 GMT

You know this is really getting sad! You talk about why can't Obama close the deal? Well why can't Hillary close the deal? Has anyone ever ask that question?

Here we go

Andrew, Cincinnati, OH — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:30:24 GMT

You cannot count Michigan and Florida, Michigan for the obvious reason (Obama's name wasn't on the ballot) and Florida because he didn't campaign there either, and the name Clinton has circulated every household in America for decades, while outside of Illinois the name Obama wasn't widely recognized. The only way Michigan and Florida will be seated at the convention is divided between the two candidates based on results from the rest of the country; basically extending Obama's lead. Hillary's just trying to get her supporters to believe she has a chance so she doesn't have to lend 15 million dollars out of her pocket to her own dead-end campaign.

I wish she'd just quit. She's killing our chances in the fall with a dirt-slinging campaign that's going to need multiple miracles to win.

Here we go

jforjools — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:30:29 GMT

I am a MN caucuser...and I will NOT stand for this popular vote BS. Hillary did not win my state (MN) because she hardly made an attempt to do so. If we had a primary (instead of a caucus), Hillary would have lost by an even wider popular vote count. (Perhaps ten times--or more--the number of people!!)

Additionally, caucus states are typically not the huge states that already have much larger popular vote counts. If we use the popular vote, this means that small caucus states count much less than the larger states which support the more expensive primaries.

Using the popular vote is unfair to caucus states--even the ones that know their actual popular vote count.

Here we go

John Wilson, Los Angeles, CA — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:30:30 GMT

Can someone clarify...is she counting Michigan as a ZERO for Obama to justify this line, or is she giving him the benefit of the "Uncommitted" vote? As shady as her entire campaign has been for months now, this would be an entirely new low, in my opinion.

Here we go

Danaelle, Kissimmee — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:30:43 GMT

"By one (rightly disputed) metric -- the popular vote, including Florida and Michigan

How can you dispute that? OK, they were not supposed to campaign here, and from what I understand, they didnt. Look, the people who run this state said: This is your primary day. If you want to have a vote recorded, be here to vote...so we showed up and we voted. Period. So, regardless of how the DNC calls it, the votes were cast by us, the people, and we voted for Hillary. Sorry bout your luck...and as for his name not being on the ballot in Michigan? WHY did he take it off? That looks to me like someone who was confused about what he should do, due to his INEXPERIENCE...duh....

Here we go

j fl — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:32:03 GMT

No todd, nice try, but the only one who is disenfranchising voters is Obama and his cult members. You are right. Votes MUST be counted. All of them. Even the ones for Hillary.

Here we go

Murgatroyd, Umpqua, Oregon — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:32:51 GMT

The deal is already closed. Clinton is like that business competitor who just can't believe that she's been excluded from the deal and keeps pestering your client.

Hillary, get over it.

Here we go

fortuna, Houston, TX — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:32:59 GMT

Of course it's not a valid measurement. It's a figment of the Clinton Campaign's imagination.

Here we go

The Truth — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:33:14 GMT

Do you hear that Obamabots?

More People Have Voted For Hillary Than Any Other Democratic Candidate.

Here we go

sg, michigan — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:33:25 GMT

Hillary still doesn't let the objectivity get in the way of telling her version of the facts.

Didn't she sign a statement saying Michigan and Florida votes don't count?

As it stands now, all she can do is postpone the inevitable loss.

I'm not sure if she's delusional, stubborn, a snake, a fool or all of the above.

Here we go

J. Richter — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:34:04 GMT

Here's my first comments on yesterday's votes according to exit polls:
- 20% of the voters voted based on race. They voted 70 to 30 for Clinton. That's 8 percentage points.

- 26% said gender was an issue. They voted 76 to 24 for Clinton. That's about 10% although this group might overlap slightly (mostly voters voting for a woman because we want a female president in our lifetime group).

- Clinton won by 9.4 points.

Without those votes (and based solely on preceived ability to be the better president) the race would have been an Obama win as in Wisconsin. Note that those numbers are alsmost the same as Ohio so it had nothing to do with Wright's comments (which no one has been able to link as Obama's comments or views) but crystalized institutional focus on race issues by some 20% of the folks in those states. Stuff like this is what gives us 8 years of non achievement and non progress and the economy those 20% suffer for as much as we all do.

Someone will counter that Obama got 90% of black vote because he is black. Assuming the vote would have been 50:50 were he not black: That represents 0.45*14% voting based on race as blacks (since 14% of voters were black which is 6%). Now the 50:50 assumption is really a stretch as it is also appropriate to factor in that Kerry got 70% of black vote over Edwards and Gore similarly over Bradley so the black vote is never 50:50. Once they determine their interest, it usually is overwhelming since they vote on a few specific issues. But then we are looking at (less than 6% non-issue based votes for Obama compared to about 18% for Hillary).

Maybe 4 more years of this kind of suffering in this country while our dollar recedes compared to the rest of the developed world will enhance our decision making abilities in terms of voting correctly. The alternative, we must continue talking to our neighbors and spreading some knowledge.

Here we go

joe Oklahomacity — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:34:09 GMT

she is the worse person in the world
if she steal this thing i will stay home, i now hate her and bill

Here we go

Obama '08 — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:34:25 GMT

Thank you Operation Whimpy Whiner participants. Your ability to come up with excuses for Barack are above reproach. Any Liberal Elitist in this country would be proud of your excuses.

Here we go

Samantha Power was RIGHT! — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:34:54 GMT

Of COURSE not!!

What about the caucus states?

It's about delegates!

The Media should be ashamed of themselves, playing along with Clintons fantasies!

Here we go

Terry, Great Plains — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:35:05 GMT

Typical Hillary" Janus " Clinton she includes MI and Florida in her count. Problem is they do not count. She lied about Bosnia she ahd a 20 point lead in PA and lost it. They have had to personally attack a fellow democrat utilzing the Karl Rove play book and play the race card agaisnt him( Bill's comments). Obama is no saint but if Hillary believes a price will not be paid if Obama leads in delegate and popular vote and they hand her the nomination she is delusional. The Democrats will lose the white house and maybe operational control of the Senate. Hillary is your restoration that important?

Here we go

Terry, Great Plains — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:35:06 GMT

Here we go

Willy, Raleigh, NC — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:35:20 GMT

Clinton is like my neighbor's dog. It's a tiny little mixed breed that grabs my pant leg every time I walk by. I'd like to kick it, but I know that would really hurt my neighbor, so I walk along, dragging the dog until I can get to a water hose and give it a squirt.

Here we go

Kieth Elko NV. — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:35:29 GMT

I have a question for Morning Joe. Does the fact theat the exit poles show that Hillary's voters won't vote for Obama mean that she is the one that is getting the crossover votes that may or may not be there in the general election? Does the fact that Obama's voters say they will support Hillary in the general election mean that Obama is getting the votes of the true Democrates?

Here we go

sean, atl, ga — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:35:32 GMT

so the message from the clintons is: if you voted "undeclared" because Obama's name wasn't on in Michigan: your vote doesn't matter

AND

If you voted in a caucus: your vote doesn't matter

thanks Hillary....glad to see you're fighting for 'us'...

Here we go

Keith, MI — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:35:59 GMT

A Win is a win and a vote is a vote.

So do not call a win (in PA) or a vote in (MI) invalid.

Here we go

TruthTeller — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:36:15 GMT

Obama only wins if Florida and Michigan don't count. Having successfully blocked re-dos in Florida and Michigan, the Obama campaign is hardly in a position to complain about the results we do have--especially since they are election results certified by the two states, something that cannot be said about any caucus results. It's one thing to say we won't take your delegates to our convention. Its quite another to say we're also going to ignore your votes. The voters of Michigan and Florida are not responsible for those states trying to jump the gun. Neither is Sen. Clinton. So, why should they be penalized? And turning to a more practical matter, can't you just hear John McCain campaigning in Florida and Michigan against Obama in the general: "Sen. Obama didn't want your votes counted during the primaries, and you shouldn't give him your votes now." Live by the sword die by the sword.

Here we go

Samantha Power was RIGHT! — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:36:20 GMT

And Obama wasn't even on the Michigan Ballot!

The SUPERS need to DECLARE!

Here we go

Sue, Elyria, OH — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:36:51 GMT

By her logic then, let's include the popular vote from the caucus states. My understanding is that they are not included in the reported numbers.

You add those numbers in and Barack is ahead by over 1 million.

It's time for Al Gore to put his support behind Barack and send the Clintons back home.

I am suffering from Clinton fatigue and considering to put my support behind Nadar is she wins the nomination.

Here we go

donna — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:37:16 GMT

The Clintons...Sorta like "Beauty and the Beast" but "Beast and the Beast"....

Here we go

Yup — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:37:18 GMT

It's simple. You beat the black candidate by reminding everyone (asian, native american, hispanic and whites) that he is black. Then, you let other people look for stereotypes. I.e. he is smug or arrogant. Then you link him to Farrakhan. Even if you have a some sort of a link to Farrakhan himself. Then you make him sound like he thinks he is better than you. Added Bonus if you can make some people think he is muslim. Also, cut his legs off so he can't talk about the issues, and that if he does, no one will listen. Then, steal his stump speech so you sound more hopeful.. just like him. Talk about green jobs, and make it sound like you came up with it. Tell the people you are against nafta but go behind their backs and do otherwise. Continue to move the goal post. Confuse everyone. COunt on those people who do not come out and vote so they can come and vote you. Also, make sure to play the race card but blame him for it. Then, play on sexism and show emotion so all the women vote for you. Helps if you are a woman.

It is very easy, and this is why Obama was never gonna win from Day ONE!

Here we go

Baltimore, MD — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:37:28 GMT

This is just stupid. How can you include a vote that both parties agree, that it will not count?

What is the best way to settle the dispute between the two giants?

Here we go

Carol, Long Valley NJ — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:37:38 GMT

Is there anything that that woman wouldn't say or do to justify winning in her mind? Of course she won PA, with the PA machinery behind her. The miracle would have been if Barack had won. As it is, he went from over 25% behind to less than 9% behind. The rest were never going to budge, too busy watching American Idol.

Vote with your head, vote for the economy, vote for jobs.

Vote Democratic 2008 -- don't let the corporations and their Republican stooges win again.

Here we go

Alec McT, Santa Rosa, CA — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:38:09 GMT

I'm sorry, but I'm totally unimpressed with HRC's continual inclusion of two states which won't be in the count.

As for her incessant reasoning that Obama "isn't qualified" on the foreign policy experience needed, I ask openly what made her husband such a good candidate to run against GHWBush in 1992?
After all, Bill didn't have that experience, and Bush#41 wasa a former Navy pilot and ex-head of the CIA.
Obviously if she still thinks her husband was qualified back then, inexperienced as he was, then Obama is too.

Look, both candidates are HUMAN, and therefore imperfect. Stop looking for perfection, and get back to looking for hope for the future.

Leave the fear tactics to McCain & the GOP.

Go Obama!

Here we go

RL/ nyc — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:38:22 GMT

So how are the caucus states figured into the popular vote total? If they aren't figured in at all, then the whole popular vote narrative the Clinton camp is pushing is beyond ludicrous ... then again, it's just what we can expect from them.

Here we go

Ron, TX — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:38:32 GMT

So much for all the caucus states... according to Hillary, those states don't actually count... and of course they try to count Michigan, where Obama wasn't evne on the ballot, and Florida, where voters got to vote based off name-recognition with virtually zero exposure to the candidates.

The Clintons are absolutely rediculous.

Here we go

Andy, Ny — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:39:52 GMT

Hillary clinton is an evil witch.

Here we go

diane — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:40:16 GMT

The percent has been updated.
The actual results now is 8.5 percent margin. Not 10.
Either way, we now have 2 more weeks of clinton's farce of her candidacy where she and the media pretends she is still viable so we can have 2 more weeks of destructive Clintonian spin and attacks to divide and damage the party further.

Here we go

Mike Finney, Hurst, TX — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:40:30 GMT

Hillary's new slogan:

ONLY I CAN

Here we go

Patrick, Houston, TX — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:40:31 GMT

You have to admit that the Clinton camp has elevated parsing definitions and data to an art form.

Should this whole politics thing not work out, they can certainly make a living as "fine print" writers for cell phone contracts.

Here we go

Rita, Oklahoma City, Okla. — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:40:45 GMT

Super delegates don't have to be in MENSA to recognize that they are responsible for the following charade: seeing the perfect definition of "smoke and mirrors", with Hillary's heavy hand print all over this psycho drama she's playing out.

Who would have EVER thought that a democrat would permit a losing candidate to EVER say, "overturn the vote of the people, the rules, the most states, the most delegates, and elect me instead." For this, we fault the super delegates, plain and simple.

Here we go

Jim, Santa Cruz — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:40:48 GMT

All this BS from Clinton just drives me to send Barrack another c-note!

Here we go

Shawn Goddard, Burlington, VT — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:41:00 GMT

This is Clinton's only positive narrative, but in the end it will hurt her because almost everyone outside of the Clinton campaign thinks that it is disgusting to try to count Michigan.
This will just reinforce the idea that she'll say/do anything to get elected. Her negatives are going up as a result of this.
That said, she doesn't have a lot of other options.

Here we go

MI Chick — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:41:16 GMT

"Jennifer Granholm. Nancy Pelosi. Kay Bailey Hutchison.

Any of these choices would be better suited to be the first female president of the United States. Are we so desperate for a female president that we will scrape the bottom of the barrel, and give that honor to someone as corrupt as Hillary Clinton?

I hope not.
Sick of corruption, sick of the Clintons (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:51 AM)"

Normally I agree w/you, Sick - however, speaking as a resident of Michigan, our fair governor has helped run our state into the ground. She seems to forget that she is the gov of the ENTIRE state, not just Detroit and Ann Arbor. She tends to forget the Western half of the state because it's mainly red vs. blue. So, I hope she never gets that far.

Otherwise, you are right on.

Here we go

bernadette — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:41:44 GMT

technically Clinton's win was under 10 points (still single digit) but no one bothers to point that out. It looks better for her to say double-digit. The math is just not there for her and it is a shame that she and her supporters cannot look beyond her nose to and own personal wishes and do what is best for the people of this country. It is still 'Hillary first' and always will be with them.

Here we go

Eric, Salinas, CA — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:42:12 GMT

Typical that Hillary would try to keep Florida and Michigan in the equation when they are not allowed to have any effect on the primary race because those two states broke party rules. Hillary will break any rules to win unfairly. Why wasn't Hillary able to deliver a knockout blow in PA when she had a 19% lead to begin the race?

Go Obama!

Here we go

Frank, Missouri — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:42:16 GMT

What bunch of smoke ... this is not Russia, Billary !

Here we go

j fl — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:42:23 GMT

I hope Hillary stays in til the end. I hope she knocks Mr. Phoney, know nothing out of the race. I would actually rather have McCain for four years than Obama. At least we know McCain. I am a moderate democrat.

Here we go

Doug, DC — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:42:50 GMT

Michagan nor Florida votes should count as it is because it wouldn't be fair.

If its one thing that we've learned, it's that Obama has always, I REPEAT ALWAYS, gained momentum in states where he has campaigned. None of the candidates campaigned in Florida so how can you accept the results as VALID!!!!

Here we go

sharrell — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:42:55 GMT

You're right, here we go again... The Clinton's are at it again, you can't win Hillary unless you steal it and that's not going to happen. Calculate that...

Here we go

jerr/corpus christi texas — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:43:02 GMT

The Clinton's are stretching the truth a bit, but then again, The Clinton's are never about the truth.

Never have and never will...

Hillary Clinton
A Liar for all seasons

Here we go

Just Don't Get Her — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:43:48 GMT

The continued spin and incessant drama from Camp Clinton regarding Florida and Michigan is the height of absurdity.

Many people on these blogs freely snark their opinions on my "Kool-Aid" intake as an Obama supporter on any given day, but anyone buying into this debacle and blaming Barack for it while giving Hillary a "you go girl" pass is in no position to question my rationale in the slightest.

Do I feel for the voters of these two states that were shafted by their own elected officials, none of which were named Obama or Clinton? Most definitely.

But I'm sick and tired of this indignant act from Sen. Clinton over this situation and the manipulative way she and her "voices" continue to twist that this is ALL Sen. Obama's fault that the siutation is what it is.

Hillary, woman of integrity she claims to be, should have been all over her buddies in both Florida and Michigan from jump if her concern for the voters' plight was sincere and genuine. It should have been known back when it all came to pass that she was against it and was on record for saying so. But no...instead we've got her signing off on the "They Won't Count" deal with all the other candidates and going about her merry way until the bottom fell out of inevitability. Then suddenly it's a clutch the pearls of outrage moment and big bad Obama is disenfranchising these millions of voters to keep HER numbers down? If this isn't the definition of outrageous hyprocrisy then somebody please tell me what the hell is?

There are truly some days in this nomination process that I can't pray enough to not let this woman's tactics make me lose my religion.

Here we go

jj — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:44:04 GMT

As a Obama Wimpy Whiner the only answer is to stop the voting.

Here we go

Go Hillary — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:44:06 GMT

If the DNC doesn't count Florida and Michigan at the convention, they will loose both in the General Election against McCain.

Here we go

nuanced — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:44:11 GMT

Clinton has already declared after the debate that unfair is fair in politics, so this is no surprise.

Here we go

christine — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:44:15 GMT

this is so silly what the clinton camp and abc think its just crazy whats wrong with abc and the clintons obama gets a superdelegate from oklahoma thats what is important and all the new voter who switched parties voted for obama thats what we want not florida stop abc

Here we go

Mike MO — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:44:41 GMT

Todd, Rochester, NY

You are absolutely correct in your comment except for one small thing: the only people that matter to the Clintons are the Clintons, period.

Here we go

One who follows rules, Salem Oregon — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:45:01 GMT

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain changing the rules of the game. He will find some way by which to declare Hillary a winner.

Unfortunately, if that happens, many dems will not vote in November because they will not vote for someone with no integrity who steals a nomination.

Here we go

Pat Huntington NY — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:45:03 GMT

The sad fact is that but for stripping MI and FL of their delegates, and punishing them by cutting off the Dem's nose to spite its face, the contest would be over by now. We would be at the magic delegate number, and there would be no issue. But, of course, we Dems have a way of messing our selves up, like McCain messes himself in his Depends.

Here we go

Dan in Bronxville — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:45:37 GMT

Should there not be some conservative metric for caucus states, perhaps a statistical uplift to the caucus count. I'm thinking a weighted average, delegates times registered Democrats, or gun owners, or bowlers or white men between 30 and 55. Then we can count Florida and Michigan and Obama winds hands down. I mean, lets not disenfranchise states that don't have primary voting. That's not fair.

Here we go

Nick Bird, Philadelphia, PA — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:45:44 GMT

MSNBC please show this

I agree popular vote totals as discussed can cloud the mind here. However the Clinton campaign and their followers conveniently fail to mention that popular vote is not counted in all or most of the caucus states. It is a convenient measure but totally useless as a comparison.

Here we go

P Anderson, Palm Beach, FL — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:46:06 GMT

I don't think there's any way you can include Florida. I'm from Florida and myself as well as a number of my frineds did not bother to vote that day because "WE UNDERSTOOD IT WOULD NOT COUNT". Enough of the -------.

Here we go

Do The Right Thing, Count The Votes and Seat The Delegates from Fla. & Mich. — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:46:33 GMT

Todd, and the antithesis to your argument is that;
a) Obama's surrogates DID run TV ad's up in Michigan encouraging people to vote "undecided", instead of voting for Hillary. She STILL got the most votes up there.
b) His name WAS on the ballot in Florida, and Hillary won by 300,000 votes
c) The voters in either state did NOTHING to be discounted, excluded, or even disenfranchised this way. It was lawmakers in BOTH states who set the primary dates. In fact it was a REPUBLICAN state assembly, and a REPUBLICAN Governor in Florida who changed the primary date down there. Why should Democratic voters be punished like this, and have their voice taken away? Doesn't make any sense.
d) It appears as though votes only get "discounted" when they are cast for Hillary. Imagine what kind of talk there would be if Obama won either state and it wasn't counted? His surrogates (like Jeremiah Wright) would be SCREAMING from the rafters!
e) Florida will likely remain a red state in this upcoming election if Hillary isn't recognized as the winner their and her delegates are not seated. (Go check the polling data if you don't believe this.)
I don't care who voted when, or why they shouldn't have, or who agreed to discount what. Any agreement law, or 'otherwise' that disenfranchises a single voter from PARTICIPATING in the process is wrong!
The voters in both Michcigan and Florida aren't going to forget this come November. If we don't do the right thing, The Democratic Party will lose at least one, and possibly BOTH states in the general election.

Here we go

Julie, Creve Couer, Missouri — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:48:03 GMT

How can you count Florida? We have seen in EVERY state where Obama campaigns in person that Hillary's lead is cut in half, at the very minimum. Just look at PA. Hillary was leading just a month ago by 26 points. And he cut it to 10. So to count the vote in FL where Obama did NOT campaign in person would just not be representative of the dynamics of this campaign. And of course MI cannot be counted as Obama was not even on the ballot.

Here we go

Jill, Tampa — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:48:14 GMT

Clinton only leads Obama if Obama gets "0" in Michigan. Are they serious?

Here we go

Amy B Portland, ME — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:48:26 GMT

Hillary has done Obama a huge favor, showing him with which groups he is less popular. Its all about the General Election now, folks. The same voters who went for Hillary, will go for McCain. These are not educated people, they will not be swayed by reasoned arguments, they are afraid of sophistication and worldliness. What Obama needs is the white, working class equivalent of an Oprah endorsement. He needs the endorsement of TV stars, NASCAR racers, country music stars. He needs to to send his wife out to talk shows with a big smile on her face, all homey and un-serious. Put on a flag pin for crying out loud.

Here we go

jeremyemilio — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:48:28 GMT

Actually, it's the Obamabots who are fudging the numbers here. The ruling concerning Florida and Michigan by the DNC was that the DELEGATES would not count. Nothing in the ruling suggests pretending that the primaries never happened (if this were the case, there would be no debate right now about holding a second primary in either state because it wouldn't BE a second primary; it would be a first). Also, there was nothing preventing Obama from being on the ballot in Michigan other than his concern that he was going to lose. First Obama says the votes of Superdelegates should reflect the will of the people. Now they’re just supposed to be a rubber stamp the pledged delegates and be done with it. Suddenly everything has changed.

Here we go

Holli, Oklahoma City, OK — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:49:28 GMT

Do you think that the campaign wonks shake their heads and one another, laugh, and say "yes, we do really have to put this out." If Hillary Clinton wins, it will only be because she successfully has managed to convince the superdelegates that the vote of the people don't matter. If she was so concerned with the votes of FL and MI, why didn't she protest the decision of the DNC at the time they were making the decision?

Here we go

CitizenJ — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:49:32 GMT

Sorry bout your luck...and as for his name not being on the ballot in Michigan? WHY did he take it off? That looks to me like someone who was confused about what he should do, due to his INEXPERIENCE...duh....

Danaelle, Kissimmee (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:30 AM)

He did it because he is honest. I guess it is probably too much for you to understand.

You sound like Lanny Davis.

Here we go

Sheila, St. Louis, MO — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:49:32 GMT

Every time I hear or see Clinton herself or one of her supporters move the goal post so that she can win by any means necessary, the harder it makes me want to work to see Obama win. I just made a contribution to Obama.

I love how her victories are the most important victories EVER while her camp discount his. Bottom line is Obama played by the rules lay down in Michigan and Florida. Hillary, which now I see is typical, said she would and then went back on her word at the last minute. The Clinton manta is a win at any cost.

Here we go

Rodgers Park — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:49:37 GMT

Puerto Rico and Guam mean more to the Democrats then Michigan and Florida. Unbelievable.