http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspxFrom NBC's Mike ViquieraSpeaker Nancy Pelosi and her allies in the House now appear to have the Democratic votes necessary to pass the measure that requires American combat troops to be out of Iraq by Fall 2008 at the latest. Three House liberal leadersen-USCommunityServer 2.0 (Build: 60608.1)http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#98751Thu, 22 Mar 2007 22:00:30 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:98751Hopeless in WashingtonI don't doubt that the House will get it passed, the problem lies with the slight lead in the Senate. They will not be able to get any thing done there!http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#98852Thu, 22 Mar 2007 23:02:19 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:98852mikeeg,abdn,waYa go Nancy one step at a time.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#99090Fri, 23 Mar 2007 03:40:44 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:99090Hmmmm, S.F., CAHas Nancy-Fonda ever served our Nation in any capacity that did not involve her profiteering and personal greed...such as in Vista, the Peace Corps, or, god/allah/mohammed/ forbid, in military service?http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#99142Fri, 23 Mar 2007 05:25:34 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:99142Brad, Albion OKHello my liberal brothers and sisters. I am a conservative republican who has been reading first read for a week or so now. You may or may not like my point of view, but here it is. We can win this war! We are America damnit, and if we can't do it, nobody can, and we are all screwed. Why am I here and not on some other conservative blog? Because my view doesn't exactly fit theirs either. I believe that the wings of freedom ARE flapping in unison, and all that is left on the conservative blogs are finger pointers who want to blame the liberals. I see you liberals as an important component of democracy. Without you, would there be this preasure to finish this buisness? Now here is where I think you will definately agree with me. We can't win with Bush. Who can still stand behind him other than the blind partisan (there are definatly some here too) lemmings? Now I wan't you all to imagine victory. Savor the idea. But know that it will not happen any time soon. It will take, to parrot the president, "strength of will". It will also take, as hard as it is for me to say, a different commander in cheif.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#99210Fri, 23 Mar 2007 11:24:09 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:99210Florida FoxWell Brad, since it will take time, there will be a different USA president before it is over. Just a little side info; I was stranded in an airport overnight recently due to a mechanical problem with the plane. There was a small group of Middle Eastern looking men stranded also. They were loudly repeating among themselves that it was George Bush's fault. Hmmmmm! Think about that one.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#99229Fri, 23 Mar 2007 12:26:20 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:99229DesmondBrad, at what stage, after four years, do you believe we are at right now? Winning, loosing or holding our own? The President no longer says we have won or are winning. Rather, he says we can win.We have another 2 years with this President in charge. While he is in charge, what can we do, during that time, to insure that we are closer to winning when he leaves office?http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#99271Fri, 23 Mar 2007 13:16:26 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:99271Amy B Portland, MEdear Hmmmm, in my opinion, Pelosi is serving her country right now, trying to pull our representatives together to confront our participation in an endless war. As to her earlier life, she did give raise five children. That's a commitment that's longer than two to four years. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#99275Fri, 23 Mar 2007 13:19:27 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:99275Paw Paw, NCBrad,Albion OK: Read this and then give considerable thought to "we can win the war against Terror". http://www.ausa.org/pdfdocs/ArmyMag/Feb07/Trebilcock.pdf This phrase has been used over and over to justify the insanity, loss of life, and wasteful spending associated with policing and rebuilding a country the United States destroyed. This Administration and our Congress (Democrats and Republicans) share the blame equally. This whole mess has been staged like an old fashion western movie with President Bush mounting his horse and everyone else falling all over themselves to get in on the glory, let's hang em guilty or innocent. This has never been a "War" when the U.S. invaded Iraq the army threw down their weapons and ran just like they did in the Gulf War. All the United States has succeeded in doing is creating "Another Isreal" in the Middle East. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#99293Fri, 23 Mar 2007 13:43:12 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:99293Hopeless in WashingtonBrad... define "WIN". I thought the war was won when the president said "Mission Accomplished"! Republicans like to say the Democrats want to lose by cut and run. No one is really listening to the Democrats and have been taking the Republicans lies as the Dem's position. It's no longer a matter of "Winning", just by a military strategy, but a matter of getting this country stable by a political solution; which is what the Democrats are now pushing for. This administration think Militarily only and we can see that's just not working. But to fight THIS war, they need security and a political strategy. I'm no expert by any means, but that's just my opinion.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#99299Fri, 23 Mar 2007 13:45:58 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:99299mikeeg,aberdeen,waI stll have not heard a definition of win, and how that is going to happen other than stay til the end of time. When I came home from nam I felt that on a personal level that I had won because A. the vc nor the nva got me B. the idiot politicians who sent me did not get me either. I survived from both sides, one side shooting at me the other side sending me for some unknown reason(the domino theory was 100% wrong). I see the exact paralel in iraq, therefore bring em now unless you are willing to go or are willing to send your kids. Just so you know I enlisted in USMC and volunteered for nam, I did so to see for myself what the war was about. I found it to be a worthless situation.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#99347Fri, 23 Mar 2007 14:21:13 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:99347Dorothy"Things that make you go hmmmmm....."--C&C Music Factoryhttp://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#99368Fri, 23 Mar 2007 14:37:58 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:99368James, downstate IllinoisHmmmm - Surely you're not comparing Speaker Pelosi's lack of a military record with the sparkling military careers of Misters Bush and Cheney? How many deferments did Cheney get to avoid service? How much action did Bush see in the vaunted Texas Air National Guard? And we all know Cheney was acting in a purely altruistic manner in his days at Halliburton. Now tell me how this question is relevant to Pelosi's attempts to extricate the US from this mess in Iraq?http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#99397Fri, 23 Mar 2007 15:09:13 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:99397Jerry/Corpus Christi texasI'm still trying to figure out what a warehouse full of peanuts has to do with keeping our people funded for the war on terror. This congress is as almost as bad as the last one. Osama Bin Laden is circling the date on his calander to extoll his people to keep fighting the americans until this date and then they win! Pelosi is a disgrace and all she is doing is giving the ragheads a chance to plant IED's all over America. If that happens, Liberalism will go down faster then the twin towers did in New Yorkhttp://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#99405Fri, 23 Mar 2007 15:22:28 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:99405kim, crofton mdBrad- Just the fact that we are America doesn't make the war any less of a waste of lives and money. If you stand back and look at reality you will see that our military has been trying to tell us that the investment we have had to make in Iraq has tremendously weakened our ability to respond to other, more serious threats. Most Americans now realize that we were misled by our politicians into getting involved in a war that we have little chance of winning- a war that will slowly bleed us dry. Look at how the Soviet Union fell after its involvement in a fruitless, ten year war in Afghanistan. I'm sure the Soviets couldn't face the prospect of a defeat, and so allowed the hopeless effort to continue. Wouldn't a slow defeat that saps our military and financial strength be the best gift we could give to the terrorists? Look at who is benefitting ---corrupt companies like KBR and Bechtel and corrupt defense contractors like the recently indicted Wade and Wilkes. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#99416Fri, 23 Mar 2007 15:28:27 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:99416mikeeg,abdn,wajerry corpus christi when and where did you serve? what have you done to keep freedom alive and well? you can go to iraq anytime you want and be john wayne.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#99431Fri, 23 Mar 2007 15:37:10 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:99431OliviaJerry--Remember the e.coli (or was it salmonella?)-tainted peanut butter scare of a month or so ago? Maybe US operatives could make e.coli or salmonella-tainted peanut butter sandwiches, then airdrop them into Al Qaida country at lunchtime.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#99450Fri, 23 Mar 2007 15:50:01 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:99450Amy B Portland, MEJerry, as I understand it, a warehouse full of peanuts is what it took to induce fence sitting Republicans to vote for the resolution. The pork was a bribe for their vote. I don't see how leaving Iraqis to figure out how to share power will lead to IEDs planted all over American, on the contrary, our forces are stretched too thin at the moment to trounce the resurgent Taliban. If Osama is circling the date we are leaving Iraq, then surely its because he knows thats when we are coming after him.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#99460Fri, 23 Mar 2007 15:56:38 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:99460Ricardo in California Jerry ..if and when Osama and his gang of terrorists strike the US again, it will not be Pelosi's fault. We will have GWB to thank for that since he decided to change direction and go after Iraq instead of the real terrorists that were responsible for 9/11. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#99524Fri, 23 Mar 2007 16:28:43 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:99524Carrie, NW IowaThe problem is not with the Dems - it's with the GOP, as usual. The Dems can only do so much before the hit the brick wall that is the Republican minority and Republcian White House. Hopefully the voting public will realize this and hold the right parties responsible for any gridlock on the Iraq situation. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#99541Fri, 23 Mar 2007 16:38:59 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:99541Still Crazy After All These Years"A Brick In The Wall"-Pink Floydhttp://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#99548Fri, 23 Mar 2007 16:42:27 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:99548Tom, Boston MAHas anyone else noticed this brilliant strategy of Pelosi's? She is cutting off funding for the war by advocating funding for the war... with strings attached. Since the republican minority is too closed minded to realize that if they block all such resolutions, the funding gets cut off due to a lack of a war supplemental... GO PELOSI Brad, in January, the USMC said we cannot win militarily in Iraq. (I wish I still had the link on this website)http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#99557Fri, 23 Mar 2007 16:47:46 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:99557Al, Burlington KSBrad...We can win? Win what? Everyday this thing continues, we have another 25 soldiers killed or wounded...25 EVERYDAY. 10,000 EVERY YEAR. Do they win? What does a win look like? Do we want the Shia death squads or the Sunni bomb squads to win? I'm sorry, I just don't see that a win...whatever that is...is worth ruining the lives of so many brave soldiers. I am so much a product of the 60's that I think we've done this all before. Wasn't worth it then...not worth it now. Win? Right.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#99561Fri, 23 Mar 2007 16:51:29 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:99561Peter Caloger Bushkill, PA 18324Brad, welcome to the snake pit. I respect your opinions on the subject, but there is still the fact that the war should not have been started in the first place, and that it was the result of lie upon lie being fed to the people and the government. Besides the existence of a few rusty cans and drums of chemicals, where are the WMDs? Is it simply coincidence that Sec. of State Powell resigned right after it was becoming obvious that the president lied to the nation? And even if they were found, what the heck does that have to do with our country? The lack of relationship between the 9/11 attacks and Iraq should have been obvious to an imbecile. So, now that we are there, and over three thousand of our soldiers have died, and we have squandered national treasure, we need to ask ourselves if there is any point in remaining in Iraq. It has been said that when we leave, Iraq will sink into total chaos. That is probably true, bugt it will happen at any time we leave. So let's leave now. To those Americans who see this conflict as a must-win so that we can save face, or because we are America and America always wins, I suggest that you think for a minute about the additional soldiers who will die for nothing. And then think about what it means to die for nothing. And if you haven't noticed, America does not always win anymore, and nor should it, given the madness that has guided its foreign adventures over the past few decades. Leave Iraq now, save lives and resources, in no way interfere with our nation's current level of safety (whatever the hell our level of safety is) against additional terrorist attacks, and let us get to the business of getting our own house in order. And let us figure out how we can improve quality of leadership through our electoral choices in '08, as we watch the scumbags who so wrecked our country and our national psyche walk into the sunset, patting themselves on the back for accomplishing the only thing they were supposed to do - bolster big business at the cost of anything and everything that doesn't benefit big business.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#99580Fri, 23 Mar 2007 16:58:34 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:99580Tom, Boston MAJerry: Let liberalism crash out them. I, like all the rest of the liberals in this country, am willing to bet my life that you're wrong.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#99586Fri, 23 Mar 2007 17:02:29 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:99586Florida FoxI guess Osama can mark his calendar to make a comeback in '08. House passed the pork loaded funding bill.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#99603Fri, 23 Mar 2007 17:14:25 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:99603James, downstate IllinoisThis indignation over pork by our friends on the right is truly amusing. The last 6 years under Bush and the rubber-stamp Republican Congress have been stuffed with more pork than we've ever seen before, but it was perfectly acceptable in order to line the pockets of corporate America. Though I would prefer otherwise, if we have to toss a few pieces of pork around to accomplish a troop withdrawal, that's a much more worthy cause.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#99720Fri, 23 Mar 2007 18:26:01 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:99720mikeeg,abdn,waTom boston I dont have that link but virtually every militery person is saying we cannot win militarily, its a political solution that is needed. Just a reminder our military is so depleted that we could not handle a real threat right now thanks to bush and neocons war proponents.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#99814Fri, 23 Mar 2007 19:42:14 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:99814Tom, Boston MAmikeeg, to be honest, I have a lot of faith in this country. If a real threat to us were to emerge, I don't doubt that the military and the American people would still be an unstoppable force. I think that what has happened with Iraq is that a lot of people, in government and otherwise, mistake patriotism for militarism, confusing a tenuous and disputed connection between world events and tenuous and disputed assertions as a direct threat to our survival. Even if it cost 100 billion dollars to induce a revolution in Iraq and turn the country around, done entirely diplomatically, we would still have those 30,000 soldiers we lost to the war (both crippled and killed), and still have saved 300 billion.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#99931Fri, 23 Mar 2007 20:53:45 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:99931Brad, Albion OKI agree that it was a stupid thing to go into the war in the first place. There was no reason. Hence my lack of support for Bush. I can also understand the perspective of the person who realizes that by being there now, America is just as vulnerable as before we went in. But, the big variable is Iran. They are hugely anti American. I believe that Iran can turn Iraq into the Iraq that Bush sold to America prior to the war. If we can only establish an Iraqi government that can hold it’s own against Iran, we will have accomplished victory. Diplomatic strategy, coupled with an intelligent military presence can achieve this. But, this is all beyond Bush’s ability. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#100017Fri, 23 Mar 2007 21:55:27 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:100017DesmondBrad, you tell me . Did you vote for him?And ,if so, why?http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#100086Fri, 23 Mar 2007 23:07:31 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:100086Brad, Albion OKDesmond - Yes. Blind partisanship.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#100093Fri, 23 Mar 2007 23:14:45 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:100093mikeeg,abdn,watom I agree if a real threat happened we would respond but it would be very hard and a lot more Americans would be killed and maimed than would be necessary cause bush has depleted the military. i agree with the rest of your post in that doing it that way would have been better than bushes way. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#100157Sat, 24 Mar 2007 00:39:10 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:100157Seattle SueFlorida Fox==Your post @ 1:02 pm I don't think Osama can eat PORK because of his religion.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#100178Sat, 24 Mar 2007 01:24:18 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:100178Seattle SueFlorida Fox==Your post @7:24 am, you state there was a group of Middle Eastern men strand at the airport as your were. And they said it was Bush's fault, are you referring to the plane being in need of repair or what? Did the fact that they looked Middle Eastern to you make you nervous? Maybe you thought they were terrorsts, but if you thoght that it would mean that you don't have much faith in HLS protecting you. Would you be as concered if it had been a small group of white men? Or do you just feel threaten if someone does agree with Bush?http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#100303Sat, 24 Mar 2007 08:35:27 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:100303Marla, Centraila WAWell florida fox, most probably what you saw where several tax paying american citizens who where frustrated with the lack of true leadership from the president. Some people tag all middle eastern peoples with the lable of terrorist. Definatly not the case. Just because they where dark skinned doesn't make them evil or stupid. If they where commenting on the fact that there is oil in the mid-east, would they be wrong? Don't allow hate to consume your heart or your mind. The enemy isn't middle easterns, the enemy is hate.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#100345Sat, 24 Mar 2007 12:34:34 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:100345Rufus Gibbons, Kennett, Mo.A warehouse full of peanuts is "peanuts" (excuse the pun) to the millions of pork that was handed out to the oil companies who were posting the highest profits this country has ever seen.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#100363Sat, 24 Mar 2007 13:13:22 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:100363BlueStateKenI agree with Peter Caloger...and LOVE the name of the town that he is from. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#100492Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:19:27 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:100492Lee SteeleBrad - Iran is hugely PRO- AMERICAN. Read something from someone who's been there, and not just Rovian war-preparation propaganda. Iran has a nut case religious fundamentalist with a meesianic complex and an enormously inflated sense of destiny as president- just like us. The Iranians are smart enough to know all Americans aren't like the crazy, belligerent and bellicose president - why aren't Americans smart enough to realize the same thing about them? They have far less ability to speak out and let the world know their views - what's our problem?http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#100961Sun, 25 Mar 2007 21:59:38 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:100961DesmondBrad, thanks for the honest answer.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#100995Sun, 25 Mar 2007 23:47:45 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:100995Huh?"Look Ma...Insurgents!" "Oh my god son, your right! AIRPORT SECURITY! TERRORISTS! They're definately terrorists sir, they where chanting anti Bush slurs. I bet their planning a jihad. And if that doesn't convince you, look. They have dark skin."http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/22/98746.aspx#101071Mon, 26 Mar 2007 03:10:07 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:101071Brad, Albion OKLee. If you are right, then we are screwed because the "decision maker" in Iran is going to do all that he can to destroy America. If you are wrong, we are screwed because everyone else in Iran is going to do all they can to destroy America. Maybe the solution to both countries problems is for the people of both countries to unite against their leader. Then again, baybe I'm thinking like a treasonist. The thing that I am sure that I am right is this: you and I both think that we have America's best interest in mind. I won't change my mind though. It will be better for us to win then it will for us to loose.