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First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



Hillary's problem with African Americans?

Posted: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 1:27 PM by Domenico Montanaro
Filed Under:

From NBC's Ron Allen
There was a very interesting discussion on the flight back to D.C. from Indianapolis. By the time we landed, the Clinton campaign was proclaiming, "We shocked the world" by winning Indiana. "A win is a win," was the rallying cry, as the margin narrowed.

Meanwhile, the Clinton press team did everything possible to minimize Barack Obama's win in North Carolina. He has a "built-in advantage" there, they said. It was a state where they knew the "demographics" were going to be tough, referring the state’s African-American community. Turns out, his margin overall was greater than her's in Pennsylvania.
 
But Clinton's aides continue to argue she's the stronger nominee, because she continues to do well with the most important voters, crucial swing voters, who will make the difference in a race with John McCain in November, blue-collar and working-class voters, most of whom are white.

But how does a candidate claim to be the strongest and most electable nominee, when that candidate has very little support with some of the Democratic Party's most loyal followers, African-American voters? Wouldn't it be fair to say that ignoring that "demographic" tends to marginalize the significance of those voters, who also historically have felt somewhat taken for granted by Democrats?

When asked about the fact that Obama had won a significant, and apparently growing segment of the African-American community's votes, the response from Clinton's aides was to suggest that, by November, she would be able to heal whatever problems existed. And that she would be able to unite the party, in part, because of the Clinton family's many decades of such a positive record on matters of race and civil rights.
 
But when asked, well, wouldn't Obama enjoy the support of the segments of the Democratic electorate that have voted for Clinton -- those working-class white voters, the answer was full of doubt and concern. He's relatively new on the political scene. He's not very well known and doesn't have much of a track record, was the essence of their argument. Who knows what might happen?
 
A few weeks ago, Rep. James Clyburn (SC) made several comments laying out his observations about the Clintons' relationship with the African-American community. Let's just say it's not good, he basically said. And I think most reasonable people would say, the decreasing share of the black vote falling in the Clinton camp of late suggests that relationship is probably not improving.
 
Here's the point. To win the nomination now, the Clinton strategy, moving on to West Virginia and Kentucky and elsewhere, seems to have little to do with winning over African-American voters.

"We're not conceding any vote," spokesmen often say in conference calls. Yet the places the campaign goes and the people at the events, don't seem to support that contention.

This is a unique moment in the nation's electoral history for many reasons. The black electorate has been flexing its muscle. Today, Clinton's advisors argued that Obama hasn't proven he can win the votes of blue-collar voters, and that's the crux of the argument they'll make to the dwindling pool of undecided superdelegates.

But don't they also have to explain how they'll win over those Democrats now supporting her in single digits, especially since many of them already are convinced a historic victory, unimaginable not long ago, already has been won?

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We will come together, even those who don't want to.

Do you know why?

Because, Obama said to tell the truth.

The truth is we are all part of this great land--no matter our individual opinions and prejudices.  Like the man said,  "I am imperfect."

But he is right, people, it is not about Obama, Clinton, or MCCAIN.  

The real question is do we want to continue the war in IRAQ?  With more dead and wounded.

Do we want to reward the rich and pull every spare dime there is out of the poor and middle class? (more Bush)

Do we want health care for all--or should we let, at least some of them, die in the streets?

What do we, the people, want?

Go ahead, you narrow minded individuals, go ahead and jump ship.  Cut of your head to cure your headache--yes, that will make you feel better (or bitter)  However, in the end you are only acting in a self-destructive way.

Surely, if Hillary had won, I would want her policy--not McCains!  It doesn't matter that I find Hillary completely repulsive, and dishonest.  Her policies are sound, and they are very close to Obama's, and they well help Americans!  And they will help my friends, the soldiers!  And they will help us all!
Those Policies will help our education and our economy.  Those policies will determine and define all of us.  

The rich, are rich for a reason.  Special interest lobby for a reason. Politicians accept money from special interests for a reason!  Obama's policies, the same in many ways as Clinton's policies, are this contry's great chance to change the course of our  dependence on oil, on special interest, and on dirty politics in general.  It's time to have a little discipline and not act like a spoiled brat.  

It is time to come together as Democrats!

Republicans:  Beware!
"But Clinton's aides continue to argue she's the stronger nominee, because she continues to do well with the most important voters, crucial swing voters, who will make the difference in a race with John McCain in November, blue-collar and working-class voters, most of whom are white. "

Most blue collar workers are white? Well, that's news to me! So I guess most black people are all in managment and working cushy office jobs, huh? lol

I'm thinking that most black voters are blue collar. The "Clintons" have taken the black vote for granted so long, they don't even know they are doing it. Ditto for the media.
I hope blacks are enough to win in November.
Hillary... it's over.  Not trying to sound condescending... but it's over.
Sounds like Bagdad Bob--the Clinton Campaign!
Therein lies the unspoken truth:

Clinton's advisors argue that he can't win blue-collar and working class voters between now and November no matter what but it isn't race (and apparently, not about party)... yet, she can win African-American voters back by waving a magic wand.
obama's problems with white voters?
(One habit of modern Democrats is that they tend to fall in love with candidates who are both unknown and untested. The superdelegates will now have to decide if Mr. Obama is more like the Jimmy Carter of 1976 – or Michael Dukakis.)WSJ

Hillary just can't concede can she?  Funny I'm not seeing her as a fighter as much as I'm seeing her as a spoiled brat who just can't get her way.  Someone needs to tell her she's making a jackass out of herself.  
Most AAs are fed a steady diet of what Rev. Wright has to say. It's very similar to what the Palestinines teach their people about the Israelis. It's no wonder that they vote as a block for one of their own. Until they learn the truth, they will be undermined and controled by their so-called leaders.
I know people think we need to be nice to the Hillary camp now, but in who's world was an Indiana win for Clinton a "shock"?  Looking at all the poll numbers over the last several months, Hillary had the lead in the majority of Indiana polls and by a much more significant amount than Obama ever did (the VERY few times he actually had a lead).  The Clinton spin will go on and on.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/in/indiana_democratic_primary-639.html#polls
The clintons messed up with African americans. When the primaries started, they supported the clintons. Then Bill played a race card, and african americans realised the real colours of the clintons. they use people to get what they want. The african americans the shifted out of being hurt by the clintons, but because Obama was black.
the clintons are transparent: they "love" the black citizens of this country as long as none of them get "uppity" and start trying to surpass their power.

so typical! and i'm a white voter, thank you.

i'm waiting for bill to come out on stage with his saxophone!!!
Finally!  Someone in the media to touch on this blatant marginalization of the African American vote.  This crystalizes why African Americans have felt taken for granted for years now and why African Americans under 30 are the fastest growing segment of Independents.  Senator Clinton's campaign is effectively arguing that white working class votes count more than African Americans and we will continue to allow our vote to be taken for granted.  Not any more, lady!  Say hello to the new Negro.  
These people in the Clinton campaign are clearly delusional.  And now, their delusion is starting to become offensive to me as a white american male in his 30s.  What's their point?  That African Americans don't really matter?  That elderly white Americans should count more than African Americans.  Call this what you will: I call it a throwback to the days when African Americans' votes counted as less than 1 vote.
clintons problems are many and irrelevant, what's going in regards to the two presidential nominee’s obama and mccain?
An excellent question and about time it's been asked. The chances of disillusionment and voter loss are far higher if Hillary wins the nomination, especially if there's a perception of it being "stolen", among younger voters, first-time voters (not necessarily the sme as younger voters), and African-American voters.
Hillary's problem with african-americans began in South Carolina...and it wasnt even she that started the flood against her, it was Bill.  Lets not just assume Barack winning 92/8 of the black vote was simply because of his pigmentation...he symbolizes many of the same struggles that african-americans have struggled with.

Its an interesting and powerful coalition he has built.  College educated white guys with money, college students, african-americans and new voters.  Its a new coalition that democrats should be very excited about.  A new generation of voters that will vote democratic for years to come, and a solid cash base in which to draw, along with this sense of multi-culturalism that has always been a part of the democratic party.  I guess as one of those college educated white guys who donates to Obama whenever he asks...I am very proud of you Barack.
An argument to allow the rest of the states a chance to vote, seems a bit strange.  I'm a resident of Indiana. Until now, I've never had a voice in deciding the Dem nominee.  
There's just something about the CAROLINAS that make the clintons revert to race baiting.

No one complained about her "built in demographic" in PA did they? And democrats rarely win a majority of blue collar whites in General Elections.

Anything to dismiss "the black candidate and his voters"

So are you saying we're insignificant, Hillary?
FINALLY

someone asking this question

thank you Ron!
thank you First Read!

28.....southern...white guy...
You have got to be kidding...Hillary is spining out of control.  She's put Bill through a wringer stumping and lying his way across the land...destroying his legacy.  What's it been all about?  Payback?  Bill go home and rest, take Chelsea.  Make reservations at a mental hospital for your wife...because when the music finally stops...she'll fall down.
Of course, another example of the Clinton camp not thinking beyond the next contest -- We'll pander to poor whites in the primary, then go back to pandering to blacks in the general election. Why wouldn't we, we're the Clintons.
Do you think that the Clintons used the black vote all along?  Now that they are no longer winning it, they act as if black vote doesnt count for as much as the white.  If I were black, I would be insulted too not to mention that I would feel used by Bill Clinton.  Shame on the Clintons again for the divisivness they put on display for all Americans.
Hillary is being treated by the Democrats just as they would treat a Republican. Talk about a party throwing one of their own under the bus! Here is a family that led the Democrats to a rare visit to the White House, and the Democrats throw Hillary and Bill under the bus over a race issue. Race trumps gender for the Democrats, so to get rid of Hillary, the Democrats have to treat her like she was a Republican.
Clinton ALSO has a problem with white people or else she would have whipped him long before now. Maybe I should say white, educated people; she does very well with the uneducated.
In 1787 at the Constitutional Convention, a compromise was reached called the "3/5th compromise."  It stipulated that slaves counted for 3/5 of a person.  This disgusting line that the Clinton campaign is dancing around sounds an awful lot like they think it's still 1787.  I'm white and I'm starting to be outraged.  I can't imagine how my fellow African American citizens must feel.
You people are so ignorant.  Can't you tell what she is doing?  She is playing the press like a fiddle and they are falling for it.

She has lost!  Period....End of game....Shove her to the side and let's get on with it!
There's just something about the CAROLINAS that make the clintons revert to race baiting.

No one complained about her "built in demographic" in PA did they? And democrats rarely win a majority of blue collar whites in General Elections, where as the AA vote is a guaranteed.

Anything to dismiss "the black candidate and his voters"

So are you saying we're insignificant, Hillary?
How is it that the candidate, her surrogates and supporters, the media, pundits observers alike can't understand why black support for Obama has grew and remained so strong throughout this process.  Why Clyburn made the comments he did.  I don't believe his comments were made to affect the race (though there is no doubt they may have).  Clinton has made a number of arguments during her campaign to support her candidacy, and for much of it, and currently the only arguement being made today is that Black voters or votes from blacks do not count.  Not as much as white voters who are yet to show the same type of loyalty to the party.  The media compounds this by stating over and over that the race rest with white voters.  This is, has been and will continue to be viewed by in-the-know African American voters as completely absurd and offensive.  Time heals all wounds, lets hope so for the Clinton's sake.
Thanks Ron!  I have been pondering the same question for the past two weeks.  Why has this question gone unanswered in the media for so long?
Yup... either she is messing up or she's letting those around her talk her into stupidness.  A little of both I think.
When will we be rid of this self serving nonsense from the Hillary "Republican" Clinton gang of liars and thieves?  I am getting sick and tired of how these buffoons keep changing the rules and goalposts of this primary.  It's painfully clear that they lost big yesterday and have no credible chance of overturning the voter's choice except to steal it with the superdelegates.

Come on supers, stop sitting on the fence and get this ridiculous waste of time over with so Obama can concentrate on sending that ancient elitist panderer McCain into political retirement, where all Reagan foot soldiers belong.

Go Obama 08/12!
You see there is a very big problem here !! If the Clintons do the math there is almost no way she can win this nomination.The only way to do that would be to steal it with these very insulting arguements.I think to continue these arguements is a very big sign of disrespect to black voters. When you here them make the arguement that Obama cant carry theMOST IMPORTANT VOTERS the question becomes ? Are they saying that black voters are not important?  That is a very poisonous question to keep floating out there. That question being floated out there is a major reason that she has lost the black vote. May be for good. I think it would be very bad politics to keep raising this race issue in the terms that they have. The more black people hear it the harder it will be to mend that fence with that great big gaping whole in it.  I can tell you this that if they persist on trying to use that arguement and steal this nomination then the Clinton name will go down in History for single handedly destroying the DNC. That to assume that they can get into the Psychosocial of a race of people is stupid. I think that she had better start mending that fence now before she see's a nuclear option from Black people.

*** This race was not about RACE until Bill made those infamous comments just before the South Carolina Primary.  Since then, the MSM has consistently pushed the idea that the Clinton’s were the ones pushing this debate.  In turn, the African American community was pushed away from Hillary by her own accord.  Hillary had a 20% - 30% take in votes in the AA community; they didn’t vote for Obama because he is Black, they did so because Hillary, and the MSM pushed them to it.  She lost that vote.  So, I would appreciate all of the racist people to actually use their brains on this one.  Stop making excuses, either you were never going to vote for Obama either way, or are simply trying to find a reason not to. ***
I agree that Clinton has had a rough time gaining the African-American vote, although it wasn't always the case.

Early on, she had a very sizable lead in African-American support but it slowly dwindled once America saw the impact of Barack Obama.

http://www.politivine.com
Like it wasn't bad enough that her father sent her into a war zone in Bosnia under sniper fire, now her mother is going to fritter away the family fortune to send her into the inner city to try to heal the problems with black voters.

Chelsea - support Obama now.
Hillary reminds me of my children when they were younger. They hound you to death hoping you will change your mind. They try to keep changing the rules to suit them. They were stubborn. They would not listen to anyone. They would lie to get what they wanted. They exagerated,,and then they would ask me for money? HRC........The mind set of a seven year old...........................obama 08
na na na na . . . na na na na . . . . hey hey hey . . . goodbye.  

It’s all over but Hillary's crying. I will say though that I was ticked off my post wasn't put on yesterday.  I predicted Indiana to be close and that Delaware and other eastern counties would be much closer than Ohio was.  My prediction was correct, and I noticed Todd pointing out the Indiana Mason-Dixon line today, but it’s hard to crow when you look like a Johnny come lately . . .   But my prediction was correct, Obama by double digits in NC and Indiana wouldn’t go to her by more than 5%.  
Simply stated, her Granddad isn’t from Indiana and her family members didn’t play at IU.  If nothing else this shows she was perceived as the hometown girl coming home in Pennsylvania, kind of like Obama in Kansas.  Of course he stomped her in Kansas.  
As for everything else, Pat B. sees Obama as the nominee and looking at his face, McCain has a problem.  If Rev. Wright doesn't play in Indiana, he doesn't play anywhere folks.  
After all the Clintons did for African-Americans, this is the thanks they get, 90% of the AA vote goes to Obama. Obama will get nearly 97% of that vote in the general election, but in no way will that offset the working class white vote that will go for McCain. Obama may win one of the Carolina's with this demographic, but will lose states like Pennsylvania, Ohio, and much of the northeast. He doesn't stand a chance.
Bill Clinton pushed almost all of the black vote to Obama to scare the working class white voters away from Obama, making him the black candidate.  It is that strategy that has kept her alive this long.  Didn't work well enough and cost Bill 11 mil.  Ba Bye
hill please give it up...for the good of the party...please.  it seems now she is deliberately trying to sabatoge obama.  she wants to be president for herself not for the american people.
This is nothing new for Clinton in this campaign.  I'm not an African American, but I too feal that she's made no attempt to win my vote.

Before my state got a chance to vote, I heard her talk about how unimportant small states like mine were.  I heard her talk about how my state's caucus is undemocratic, and how caucus states were dominated by left-wing extremists.  

My wife and I are educated, and we heard how we were now elitists because we understood economics and law and could see through her policies.  My wife heard her surrogates call her a gender traitor, even though she's a die-hard feminist.  Then other surrogates called us racists voting out of guilt because in their eyes our candidate was an empty suit with a black face.  Then Bill says we're too young and eisily snookered.

You might be suprised to know that while I was leaning Obama, I was undecided for a very long time. I may even have gone for Clinton, if she'd tried to get me.  

But all I heard was how my vote didn't matter, shouldn't count, or wasn't a vote she was looking for.  So I gave it to Obama.

I wonder how many others out there have the same experience?


Ron--

Thanks.  Also, I saw HRC live a few minutes ago and what I saw disturbed me on a couple of counts.

One, she was 'continuing the fight.'  This, unfortunately, suggests she has no intention of taking advantage of the 'grace period' extended to her to bow out on her own terms, barely.  The choice is hers, but now others will have to put her down.  Bad call, Senator.

Two, and more disturbingly, was her reference to Sen R Kennedy's win in the June 1968 primary.  Perhaps I'm a bit sensitive on this, but when you openly speculate that the leading candidate, an attractive one, and, yes, a bi-racial one, might meet the same fate, well..what the hell can you say?  

This filly seriously needs to be put down.  With a vengeance.  Now.
THANK YOU for finally bringing up this subject.  The focus on WHITE blue collar workers as the only "significant segment" of the population needed to win the general election has been an outrage.

The idea that blacks, or anyone else, will automatically vote for whoever is nominated is highly insulting.  There may very well be segments of the population that will not vote for a black man, but there are certainly large sections of the population that will not vote for someone that has been deliberately insulting them for months and months.

Obama will need to work to get the vote of white blue collar workers.  But at least that is a worthwhile pursuit.    

I defended Hillary for years to my conservative friends and family, only to see her prove that each and every one of their assertions about her are true. It is sad, but it is a fate she brought on herself.


As an African American woman it greatly offends me that the votes of white blue-collar Ambericans mean more than mine.  Each and every time I hear this...I wonder where is the equality...where is the justice?  Our votes are just as important as white America's.  This is why I am voting for a change, for one nation and support Obama.  I'm tired of hearing about white Americans opinion being more valuable than Black Americans.  We all have a voice, we all deserve to be heard on the same level.
What you don't seem to understand is that people who don't vote for Hillary aren't as important as people who do vote for Hillary, see?  Black people don't count because the majority vote for Obama.  Caucus states don't count because Obama's superior organization gives him an advantage in those states.  People with graduate degrees don't count because they don't understand the average American.  Once you get rid of all of those votes that don't count, and calculate in the votes of Michigan and Florida (these votes DO count, but Washington's primary votes DON'T count), well, then it's clear who the stronger nominee is.
One thing this article has failed to mention is Hillary "Republican" Clinton's problem with all varieties of Democratic voters.  The longer she drags this primary farce on the more resentment she garners from those of us who want her to do the gracious thing for the good of the party and just drop out.

Come on supers, time to get off that fence and stop worrying about your political future by waiting for some signal.  If we voters haven't given you the message yet that we want Barack then you're going to find out the political consequences of serving yourselves and not the party.

Go Obama 08/12!
Appalling.

Graceless.
SO how does Obama explain how he can't carry white women, Latino, and Senior voters?

Obama will lose in Nov. if he is the nominee.
Keep smoking and inhaling the Whacky Weed Clintons. I don't know what your smoking but it must be good and I think BIll and You have had enough.

Game, Set, and Match. The game is over.  The Clinton's have lost. I am in hog heaven today.  

Republicans for Obama 08


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