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First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



Health reform sticking points

Posted: Friday, November 06, 2009 5:03 PM by Domenico Montanaro

From NBC's Doug Adams
With word that the healthcare reform vote may slip in the House, it's clear that Democrats are still scrambling to get to enough of their members on board. With the assumption that no Republicans will support the bill, Democrats (who now number 258) need to keep their defections to under 40 in order to get to a bare majority of 218 votes.

There are a couple of different factions. Many of the moderate Blue Dog Democrats think the overall bill is too expensive and chances are a big handful of them will vote against the bill. Then, there are some Democrats in marginal districts who are worried about their re-election race -- in some cases the leadership could give them a pass to oppose.

And two policy sticking points have emerged -- abortion and immigration.

Here's a short primer on those two bugaboos:

ABORTION: A group of pro-life Democrats are concerned the bill does not go far enough to ensure that taxpayer money will not be used to pay for abortions. There are at least two dozen pro-life Democrats in the House and while not all of them are threatening to vote against the bill, there are enough that it's become a problem for the House leadership.

Mike Doyle (D-PA) and Brad Ellsworth (D-IN) are trying to work out a compromise. Ellsworth's amendment would strengthen the language and, among other changes, would specifically ban the "public option" from covering abortion. But some pro-lifers want to go farther, and they favor even tougher language in an amendent by Bart Stupak (D-MI) who wants to block coverage of abortion services from both the public option AND private insurance plans that get federal subsidies. The Stupak language, say abortion rights supporters, is so strong it could mean health insurance providers that cover abortion won't even be able to participate in the public exchange (where tens of millions of customers would shop for insurance).

The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops is lobbying hard on this issue, and many members won't back anything the Bishops oppose. And the USCCB does not support the Ellsworth compromise.

IMMIGRATION: With opponents of health reform whipping up the spectre of illegal immigrants getting free health care, some moderates are pushing to bolster immigration restrictions. But that's a big problem for some Hispanic members who think the language is already strong enough.

The House bill already bars illegal immigrants from enrolling in the public option, and from recieving subsidies for health plans. But the Senate bill goes further, also barring illegal immigrants from shopping in the "public exchange." THAT restriction goes too far for many in the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, and they want to make sure the House bill isn't changed to match the Senate languague.

Rep. Xavier Becerra, the only Hispanic member of the House Democratic leadership, is trying to work out a compromise. The Hispanic Caucus has 27 members, a big block of votes that Democrats can't afford to lose.

On the other side of the issue are a signficant number of moderates, mostly from conservatifve districts, who say they need reassurances about illegal immigrant restrictions.

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Comments

"Then, there are some Democrats in marginal districts who are worried about their re-election race -- in some cases the leadership could give them a pass to oppose."

I cannot believe you would even write such an idiotic comment, Firstread!! NO ONE, including blue dogs, should be given a "pass" - that is beyond asinine!!

And don't think the democratic voters will give any democrat that votes against this Bill a "pas" either!! Not just NO, but Hell No!! I want there names posted on every website possible; therefore, we the people who elected this administration, which included HCR with a "robust public option" - you know, the majority that put them in charge, can and will hold them to account!!

If they truly believe their seat is at risk, just wait until 2010!!

People are posturing for their local districts and their particular base - with the AARP and AMA on board, only a fool would vote against this.

The AARP is the largest voting bloc in the nation, something the Republicans tried desperatley to pry away from the Dems - now they are in real in danger with these endorsements, as if they weren't before - I am not saying some won't vote against it, but it will be for show, and their won't be enough disent to matter
Ain't nothin' gonna happen with irrational Health Reform this weekend. The votes aren't there.
What's next from the extremists? Laws to prevent people from using tax refunds, social security, or unemployment benefits for abortions?

The demonizing of illegal immigrants is really unbelievable. If the right is so serious about the problem with illegal immigrants, why don't they end the reason they come here - for jobs. How do you do that? Force verification, and make it a serious crime to fail to verify or hire an illegal immigrant. If people faced losing their businesses, their fortunes, or their freedom so that they could save a few bucks on labor by hiring illegal immigrants, most would stop. And the problem would end!
So, the Catholic Bishops want to interfere with the reproductive rights of non-catholic women who purchase private health insurance????  How about these Bishops quit meddling in healthcare reform, and pay more attention to dealing with the child molesting priests within their own ranks.
Some simply want to turn health care reform bill into immigration reform. This bill is not supposed to be a substitute. You stop people from getting into the coutnry not kill them once they are in by banning them from BUYING and PAYING for their own health insurace!

This is definitely obstruction tactics.
Chris - IL (Sent Friday, November 06, 2009 5:43 PM)

Big business has not only enticed, but encouraged, these people to cross the borders so they can pay them whatever the heck they want to pay them!!

The have been exploited for decades; the repubs knew this; it's why Bush wanted his Immigration Bill to pass!!

The rethugs are a hypocritical bunch of scum!! And many of these "illegal immigrants," who use bogus social security numbers, are paying into Social Security knowing they will never see a dime of it!! Their money is currently paying many on Social Security today!!

The repubs do not want the illegal immigrants out of this country; they are far too profitable for their corporate buddies!!

It's a big scam!! And the simple-minded republican who votes for these idiots have yet to figure that out!!
PAM

RAZOR is a part of the group. Another new name is Louisiana CoCo. Again, the group acts pretty much as a whole.

Today Palomino did some posts without the group name.
Sadie too. We pretty much agree on what the group is based on and what is out of bounds and what isn't.
I played golf today with two of them. I've told one already to drop out because of disagreements. RAZOR has been with us since the beginning under another moniker. He/she wanted out and used a new name. Same with Louisiana CoCo, who wanted to change monikers and blog under another name. We've had as many as 22 or more names used with almost as many people. They go in and out but the three signatures we use at the end of posts are still with us. This has been a novelty and not easy to control. I am not RAZOR, just like Palomino is not Moon Dawg. We simply have like-minded views, but sometimes we clash.

We will end all of this soon I'm sure, but for now, we're simply the Chihuahua Gang.

And we thank the moderators for giving us space.

Actually my personal conversations with you have been a problem, as this one will be. This is my show. I started it and I will end it, if and when it's time.  


Ain't nothin' gonna happen with irrational Health Reform this weekend. The votes aren't there.
Cleon , OH (Sent Friday, November 06, 2009 5:42 PM)

Dream on!! HCR is going through!!

Again, thank you, Speaker Pelosi!!
Thanks Cleon for your intelligent, insightful and I am sure well informed and meticulously researched comments. With people like you who are "in the know" helping out, I can stop reading and worrying about health care reform. Clearly you've got it all figured out.

Thanks.
On another thread recently a person with Claims processing experience explained that abortion is considered a "Elective" procedure and is routinely not covered. If true, then this is much to do about nothing!

The immigration issue also seems a red herring. Illegal immigrants seeking emergency room service are not now, nor should they be denied care. There are provisions that bar them from anything else in HRC. Are we so cruel and callous we want sick people to die on the hospitals door steps?  The real issue with immigration is allowing the employers to get a pass on who they have hired at low wages.

HCR NOW!!!
Chris IL: What's next from the extremists? Laws to prevent people from using tax refunds, social security, or unemployment benefits for abortions?

You're not that dumb, are you? A tax refund is excess money that you earned and sent to the government, and is returned to you by the government, it's not the governments money. Social Security is money you paid into the system being returned to you, it's not the governments money. Unemployment benefits are taxed by the government from businesses and given to the unemployed, and once again, it's not the governments money.

Clear now?
Why are we giveing people here illegal immigrants anything there are takeing are jobs driveing labor rates down sending money made here back home geting free heatlh care what is going to be left for my kids who are american cizitens.
Sounds to me like we have a hIstoric moment about to happen this weekend. More than likely on Saturday. The abortion compromises more than provide enough votes, and very few Hous members are going to allow freakin' HCR to not pass the house because of abortion coverage. Even the strongest choice supporters.  
The demonizing of illegal immigrants is really unbelievable. If the right is so serious about the problem with illegal immigrants, why don't they end the reason they come here - for jobs. How do you do that? Force verification, and make it a serious crime to fail to verify or hire an illegal immigrant. If people faced losing their businesses, their fortunes, or their freedom so that they could save a few bucks on labor by hiring illegal immigrants, most would stop. And the problem would end!

Don't hold your breath waiting for republicans to make their busienss allies toe the line on immigration.

They should ask themselves why so many memebers of the NFIB and Chamber of Commerce are knowingly hiring illegal aliens while opposing any meaningful verification sysstem...I think that is called hypocrisy or something like that.
This is a n brainer! WHY should the taxpayers and citizens of this country be forced to provide health care to those that should not be here anyway?
Increase enforcement and increase the fines to the businesses that are hiring illegal workers. They should be forced to pay healthcare costs for their illegal workers.
STAND UP AMERICANS,UNLESS YOU LIKE TO BE KICKED TO THE CURB!!
To Chris:  that is already the law. You can't hire illegals with stiff penalties. The problem is no one is enforcing it, some places it is not being enforced by direction of the Gov.
I say Amen, to Chris in Illinois's post....
If illegal alien advocates want everything for illegal aliens.  They want a 'pathway to citizenship' - which, p.s. we have already - it's called LEGAL immigration.  They don't want any kind of enforcement of our current laws.  We have the disgrace of sanctuary cities.  We have millions of people here who shouldn't be here using fake SS#s, stealing identities, etc, etc.  And we have there advocates pushing for more, and more, and more...Basically, we're sick of their demands...hence the reason we don't even want to give them access to health insurance.   Their advocates are pushing for them to be legitimized and catered to in every way and now we're pushing back.  
Make OB-GYN an add-on or sub-text of the part the person (insured) pays for. Part F (for FUBAR) or something that is in the principle policy.
Just fix it.

And they're just noticing the immigration/illegal thing NOW? After the Wilson outburst??
To the majority of Americans, this whole health care farce would be a sticky point.
Our elected officials need to start taking a hard line on this issue. Only critical, life threatening medical emergencies should be treated. Stabilize the patient and send them packing. We should do everything in our power to prevent illegal alien women from giving birth in our hospitals. If they're from Mexico and attempt to have their baby in a hospital in a bordering State, they should be transported by ambulance to the closest Mexican hospital so the US doesn't end up with any more anchor babies we're stuck supporting.

Countries like Mexico, Brazil, Guatemala and El Salvador really needs to stop exporting their uneducated, low-skill, ignorant, bottom of the barrel leeches to the US. These illegal aliens are bankrupting our states and add no value to our culture or society.

The 39 Democrats who vote against this ..i hope they the Demos ,run someone againist  them  and  fully funding them  so the Demo in office loses it . Kick thses old koots out ..and take away any power they may have ..Its what they people want  not these old booze bags
watching the discussion, i wound up trying to figure who to trust, as usual neither party.....cant believe whats in washington is the best we can get.....To many old timers who have to go....It will remain politics as usual.....Love to have a town hall with Pelosi on this health care....still dont believe she knows whats in it........Is it tru that medicare and medicad will be cut.....My feeling says so i havent seen a democrat challenge it....figures washington at its usual.
What do the Republicans have against personal responsibility? "...the Senate bill goes further, also barring illegal immigrants from shopping in the public exchange." Let's think about this. Don't we want them to pay for their own health costs? (Just like the idea that we didn't want them to get driver's licenses; i.e. prove that they had the skills to drive safely.) Do we have to keep shooting ourselves in the foot?
Once again its about re election and not whats best for America but whats best to get re elected so they can continue to screw americans.......There are a lot of question un answered and who going to address them, for example cuts in medicad and medicare....who.....repub cast the stone, democrats avoid getting hit....figures washington at its best.......all for them, and cointinuation of the down fall of the American people.


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