Another energy vote breakdown

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:35:38 GMT

What gives here @ FR? It seems like the party of stale male & pale are bussing their lunatic right wing whack jobs to this site to serve up their daily dish of BS!

No Facts… No problem… we don’t need no stinking facts…we’ve got Lush – Bill AllRiledUP & Sean Insanity to tell us what’s wrong with this country! You Betcha!

All aboard the BS Express (which btw is a short bus) next stop the Drudge Report… hey whack jobs… what’s the cost of a round trip ticket?

Another energy vote breakdown

Charlie Whitten, NC — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:37:37 GMT

So you prefer cheap candles over electric lights? You prefer buggies over automobiles? You prefer that new fangled talking machine over TV? When each new invention or innovation came along it came with a slightly higher initial cost but eventually for what we accomplished in the long run the price was rather cheap. So it will be with clean, sustainable, home grown, renewable energy. The sky isn't falling.
eagle1776

But that is not what is happening. Innovation has always been what comes from freedom in America. The freedom to try different things, the freedom to succeed, the freedom to fail.

What cap and trade is is anything but freedom. It's the government dictating what will be done and who will do it (the government in this case). The only thing that has come out of any such arrangement of any value is nuclear weapons from the Manhattan Project. I'll let you determine the pluses and minuses of that development.

The government didn't get rid of the buggy whip. Henry Ford did with his invention of mass production. The government didn't invent telephones. Alexander Graham Bell did. The government didn't invent powered airplanes. The Wright brothers did. The government didn't invent transistors. Bell Labs did. Renewable energy won't come from the government. One individual or a group of individuals will figure that out too, on top of many, many failed attempts by others.

Another energy vote breakdown

Anita, Birmingham, Alabama — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:41:29 GMT

From NBC's Mark Murray
National Journal's Ron Brownstein has a very interesting break down of Friday's narrow 219-212 House vote approving the energy/climate change/cap-and-trade legislation. According to Brownstein, politics perhaps played a bigger role than geography did in determining who voted
---------------------
Watched a CNN interview on yesterday afternoon and “Paul Krugman” of all people happens to support this bill. Of course he didn’t think that it was enough but said that it is a start.
-------------------------
When Republican’s and some Democrat politicians understand that Americans don’t mind paying money for something that is beneficial to their safety and well being, then the issue of additional taxes are a moot point. We understand the concept and they really need to catch up with our reasoning.

Another energy vote breakdown

Republican Gal — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:41:57 GMT

The Republicans that voted for the bill just signed their political death warrent. There is nothing worse then a Republican that runs and wins on Republican values, and turns on those values at a most important moment. See Arlen "We have to do something" Spector on the stimulus bill for details to understand this better. If you want to be a Democrat, like Bono and the other 7 Republicans that voted for this flop of a bill, then go be a Democrat. At least next time around Republicans can run someone that will really be a Republican.

Another energy vote breakdown

Eric, Salinas, CA — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:42:47 GMT

Hey Mark Murray - excellent breakdown on the Energy Bill vote. Looks pretty obvious that the conservadems voted for themselves rather than for the people in voting against the Energy Bill. Looks like some of the dopes of nope have smelled the reality that they can't just say no all the time if they want to be reelected in districts that support President Obama.

Hey MO Attorney and Jonathan Flint - Looks like my comment on a prior post regarding Uncle Tom Thomas went over your heads. You two should realize that appearances can be deceiving. While Unlce Tom Thomas looks black he's all white inside. He's been very pathetic when it comes to supporting civil rights and is little different from Scalia on racial matters.

Glad to see the great news that Ponzi Madoff got the 150 year sentence to ensure he rots in prison.

Ponzi Madoff Got What He Deserved!

Another energy vote breakdown

Nashville_fan — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:45:22 GMT

Interesting how often the need to get re-elected is the primary focus instead of the actual merits of the bill.

This is what makes so many of us very CYNICAL about politics.

Another energy vote breakdown

TG - VT — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:48:21 GMT

Californians just do not learn do they? They just can't get a grip that everytime one of these big government bills passes, they lose tens of thousands of more jobs and all that tax revenue. And what have the liberals provided to California? Other then a huge amount debt, the worst schools in the country, illegal aliens up to your eyeborws, and smog as far as the eye can see in it's big cities.

Keep voting the way you do California. You'll soon have your entire state be a state park. An uninhabited state park.

Another energy vote breakdown

Anita, Birmingham, Alabama — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:49:30 GMT

I read the interview on the web. I just couldn't bare watching David Gregory as commentator, he is not good ...

This is an excellent victory for the people and the just the Obama administration. The republicans really don't want cap and trade. Their primary purpose is to kepp everything just as it is and just as it is, isn't working. It is destroying our planet.

Of course we can't control what other China and India does about meeting pollution and air quality standars, but if they continue as they are going, they wont have a country.

I feel that America being the leader in the world should set the standards and others will follow.

Another energy vote breakdown

Pay Now Pay Later Just Pay — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:51:55 GMT

When Republican’s and some Democrat politicians understand that Americans don’t mind paying money for something that is beneficial to their safety and well being, then the issue of additional taxes are a moot point. We understand the concept and they really need to catch up with our reasoning.

Anita, Birmingham, Alabama

What are the benefits of this bill? You say you understand it, so you must know. The costs are well laid out, and they are draconian, but where are the benefits laid out? At what rate will the earth cool because of this bill? Can't answer that question? Why not? That's the entire purpose of the bill, right?

And we're paying for what again?

Another energy vote breakdown

Cicero — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:54:22 GMT

This is why we need term limits. With term limits our representatives will do the right thing. Vs. having the spine of a fish or a wet sock and voting to keep their job.

Another energy vote breakdown

Jonathan Flint, MI — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:57:05 GMT

Two things

First - this bill is not going to improve the Global environment it will only push the polluters off of U.S. soil and into countries with more lax regulations.

Two - It will create tensions with the foreign nations that the "tariffs" will be against, and make it more difficult for us to export American Products abroad.

Now I'm no economist, but I would venture a guess that if we can't sell what little bit of American Product we still manufacture abroad it's not going to make economic recovery any easier.

I think someone should look at the Smoot-Hawley act of 1930 that Hebert Hoover signed into law. I think that Cap and Trade will have the same effect. Prices on a lot of our daily needs will go up, and not everyone is rich enough to cover the difference.

We talk about how health care costs cripple the poor, but what about things like high food prices?

Another energy vote breakdown

Beverly in Chicago — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:01:05 GMT

Put another way, while 59 percent of the Democrats from districts that McCain carried voted no, just 7 percent of Democrats in Obama-majority districts opposed the White House on the vote."
<><><><><><><><>
Put it this way once a Dixiecrat always a Dixiecrat
<><><><><><><<>
Feisty

Right Wing Ding Whackos don't think global warming is real. Neither are they. They want to cintrol and lay claim for everything anti-Obama. More simply put their lobbyist will lost their support.

Another energy vote breakdown

"New" politics? — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:09:26 GMT

From the Wall ST Journal....the following article shows Obama administration is manipulating the "global warming" info to try and garner support.....

"The Environmental Protection Agency may have suppressed an internal report that was skeptical of claims about global warming, including whether carbon dioxide must be strictly regulated by the federal government, according to a series of newly disclosed e-mail messages.

Less than two weeks before the agency formally submitted its pro-regulation recommendation to the White House, an EPA center director quashed a 98-page report that warned against making hasty "decisions based on a scientific hypothesis that does not appear to explain most of the available data."

Is this the "new politics" we were promised? Or is this equal or worse corruption than prior administrations?

Another energy vote breakdown

Mad as Hell — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:10:28 GMT

Maybe someday these dopes will read a bill before they vote on it. Man-made global warming is a myth and a scam.

Another energy vote breakdown

Jonathan Flint, MI — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:11:09 GMT

Eric,

READ THE CONSTITUTION! Supposedly it's the highest law in the land, but according to you a Judge's fidelity should be to his Race as apposed to the Law?

I don't expect that you have ever read the Constitution, and I imagine you think everyone who talks about it is some right wing GOP nut job, but if you find yourself bored one night please go and read it. Then read some of Justice Thomas' decisons. You might see why someone like him is important to the court.

Another energy vote breakdown

Ed, FW, TX — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:15:19 GMT

Energy is the 2nd most important aspect of the President's domestice agenda next to HRC. Its great that the bill passed. It is sad that as Nash said

"Interesting how often the need to get re-elected is the primary focus instead of the actual merits of the bill. This is what makes so many of us very CYNICAL about politics."

There are clearly times when leadership goes against opinion. Unfortunately, sometimes the weaker pols on both sides have no spine.

Cap and trade is simply a way to start the process of becoming less reliant on fossil fuels and foreign energy. This is a tax that Americans seem willing to pay for in spite of the lies they were told by the GOPer losers.

All taxes are not bad. Investing in the future is good!

Another energy vote breakdown

Nashville_fan — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:18:02 GMT

To Charlie Whitten, NC:

The entire idea of "change" involves doing something DIFFERENT than what you've done before.

While your examples of capitalism's high points is exciting, I'm sure you will agree that the low points are quite memorable as well.

Reflexive reactions against "the government", which in a representative democracy is supposed to be US, are counterproductive.

We need NEW solutions to age old problems.

Refusing to make government better because we are afraid is not a solution. Crossing our fingers and hoping that GREED will lead us out of this mess is not a solution.

Accountable goverment, checks and balances, facing the reality that markets don't run themselves - now that is the start of a REAL solution.

Another energy vote breakdown

MO Attorney — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:23:49 GMT

"Hey MO Attorney and Jonathan Flint - Looks like my comment on a prior post regarding Uncle Tom Thomas went over your heads. You two should realize that appearances can be deceiving. While Unlce Tom Thomas looks black he's all white inside. He's been very pathetic when it comes to supporting civil rights and is little different from Scalia on racial matters."

@ Eric: for a supposedly progressive leftist, you certainly do rely heavily on racial classifications in your arguments. A tad bit reactionary of you, if I may say so myself.

As for this bill, it's a sham. An ideal energy bill would maximize emissions reductions while minimizing economic distortions. Thanks to Waxman's horse-trading and Pelosi's bullying, this manages to do just the opposite.

Another energy vote breakdown

Patrick, KY — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:26:38 GMT

Two thousand dollar a month light bills for all.....hurray....will someone impeach Obama
soon...while we can still afford to blog....

I'm sure the demoncrafts are already drawing
up legislation to charge us per word......

Another energy vote breakdown

BoBo's Depression — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:29:56 GMT

Why is this a suprise?

Does anyone believe that a Demoncrap cares about anything except getting reelected?

There true colors showed thru - Big Time!!!
And it ain't Red, White and Blue.
More in the Yellow shade!

Another energy vote breakdown

Chris - IL — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:30:43 GMT

Charlie Whitten, NC (Sent Monday, June 29, 2009 11:37 AM)
-------------------------------------------------------
But you fail to recognize the role our government played in pushing the envelope of many inventions.

Railroads - The government didn't invent the railroads, but gave land grants to the railroads to get them to expand. The government has also stepped in periodically to stabilize railroads when they were in dire straits.
Cars - The government didn't invent the car, but built the roads to make car travel popular and easy. The interstate highway program was a huge Eisenhower program that is largely responsible for today's suburbs in America.
Planes - Again, as you point out, the government didn't invent the plane. But HUGE R&D spending in WWII and after pushed the envelope on plane design. And big investments in the FAA made commercial flying safe.
Electronics - The government pushed huge technology programs (NASA, military, etc) that allowed the huge leap in electronics and computers. The first modern electronic computer was used by the military to target ballistic shells.
Weather observation and forecasting was largely pushed and developed by the military and NASA's push in the 50s and 60s to launch satellites made today's weather forecasting what it is.

This energy bill is a good idea and is NOT going to kill jobs. Corporations do just fine and sending jobs offshore without the help of regulations. The fact is, most manufacturing done in the US today either requires complex processes or equipment that isn't available elsewhere, or the manufactured device is so big/heavy/fragile that it can't easily be built overseas and shipped to the US.

The bill will push US industry (and the general public) to be more energy efficient, which will save everyone money and reduce our dependence on oil (domestic and foreign).

Another energy vote breakdown

IntheMiddle, TX — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:35:34 GMT

Hey MO Attorney and Jonathan Flint - Looks like my comment on a prior post regarding Uncle Tom Thomas went over your heads. You two should realize that appearances can be deceiving. While Unlce Tom Thomas looks black he's all white inside. He's been very pathetic when it comes to supporting civil rights and is little different from Scalia on racial matters.

Glad to see the great news that Ponzi Madoff got the 150 year sentence to ensure he rots in prison.

Ponzi Madoff Got What He Deserved!
Eric, Salinas, CA (Sent Monday, June 29, 2009 11:42 AM)

*****************************************************

So you feel the need today to come out and offend BLACK PEOPLE? Uncle Tom references are racial in my book. I dont think you have any inkling of some of the BS you write. I have a lot of names I could throw at you but I have a little more class than you. I know you dont represent all of the Hispanic community just like I dont represent the African American community but I have a problem with your ignorant remarks.

Your BS is stale and played out.

Another energy vote breakdown

Chris - IL — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:37:55 GMT

Republican Gal (Sent Monday, June 29, 2009 11:41 AM)
----------------------------------------------------
Not quite. The key to success in many political districts is being middle of the road. There are a number of Democrats and Republicans in the US that are moderate and that is why they were elected.

Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe would not get re-elected if they weren't moderate.

Mark Kirk, a very moderate Republican Congressman in suburban Illinois voted for the energy bill. I'm sure he heard from his constituents that they wanted him to support the bill. And he also heard from big Illinois companies that support the bill such as Excelon energy and Deere & Co. Other big US employers that support the bill are Duke Energy, Shell Oil, and Dupont.

Those that understand the bill don't hide behind the typical fear of "it is going to be the biggest tax increase in US history and is going to cost jobs." That simply isn't true.

Even if you don't believe in global warming, reducing the use of energy and reducing pollution are sensible goals.

Another energy vote breakdown

Matthew, Houston, TX — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:52:47 GMT

Global Warming? Climate Change? It doesn't matter whether these things are true or not (personally I believe they are). We've got bigger problems than than whether you agree these are true.

Consider this, all of the products that you depend upon for daily living are, in some way, dependent upon fossil raw materials. The plastics and composite materials that are used to make your cell phone, your computer, materials that built your house, medicine and medical device, etc., etc., etc. are all the result of petroleum and fossil resources (i.e. coal and gas). At the rate we are burning fossil fuels to provide energy, these products will only become more expensive and may eventually no longer exist.

When we have a source of energy that will last, literally, until the end of the earth, don't you think we should tap into that? Yes, it will cost A LOT of money to implement the infrastructure but waiting will only drive up the costs. Think about this: once the infrastructure is in place, we will have a never ending supply of energy. Let me repeat that: A NEVER ENDING SUPPLY OF ENERGY.

Those fossil fuels are non-renewable, again, NON-RENEWABLE (for you righties out there, that means that it will eventually run out). Think about the last time you lost electricity . . . now think about that becoming permanent if we don't drastically change how we get our energy.

Other benefits include being able to fuel up (charge) for less than half the price your paying now. No more gas and diesel fumes (known carcinogens) when you're stuck in traffic. Fewer tanker trucks on the road, less pollution, fewer refineries spewing cancer causing agents into the air and the list goes on.

Fossil resources will always be needed for the things we take for granted but there is no reason to use them to produce electricity or to provide transportation. If we don't address that problem now, we could very likely become a world with 21st century knowledge without the means to implement it.

Wouldn't it be a better legacy to leave future generations with endless, cheap energy and the means to make the items we take for granted?

Another energy vote breakdown

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:13:21 GMT

Right Wing Ding Whackos don't think global warming is real. Neither are they. They want to cintrol and lay claim for everything anti-Obama. More simply put their lobbyist will lost their support.
Beverly in Chicago (Sent Monday, June 29, 2009 12:01 PM)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Aint’ that the truth! Like I said before it’s their kind that would be pushing woman & children aside to get their fat @ss’s into the lifeboats!

We’ll see who the ‘jokes’ on over the next few years… again why isn’t scientific proof good enough for them… ohhhh that’s right… the right wing whack jobs don’t believe in science…

After all the Wasilla Chillbilly claimed man walked with dinosaurs and we all know how well educated SHE is!

Another energy vote breakdown

MO Attorney — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:16:30 GMT

"Now I'm no economist, but I would venture a guess that if we can't sell what little bit of American Product we still manufacture abroad it's not going to make economic recovery any easier."

@ Flint: Forget American exports. The Democrats are so worried that this bill will make it difficult to sell American products here in the U.S., they were kind enough to include an illegal tariff to protect American industry.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/29/us/politics/29climate.html?_r=1&ref=global-home

Another energy vote breakdown

Fortunate Son — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:44:00 GMT

Not only do I not believe in global warming, I think it's a croc to find a way to raise taxes on energy and, again, bring down the middle man.

I think Obama is a fraud and Gore a lost ball in the weeds, void of any common sense. He's in this for the money. May a cloud of rain follow this crook to every corner of the world.

I think the Dem adninistration is choking the taxpayer and is arrogant in it's stance on everything from abortion to why bears s--- in the woods. Most of them don't have the brains to find their way home.

You may have the power now but you are abusing it and that's gonna hurt you in the long run. The libs here are too "out there" to even know that what hits the conservatives will hit them too.

I understand your frustration with the "moons" and especially Bad Chihuahua, just as I understand why the fear in you causes nothing but a hailstorm of violatile putdowns and sarcasms. You will get what you give many times over.

There IS a reason why Fox is #1 and Olbermann's face is getting fatter by the week. We'll be back. Bet on it.

Another energy vote breakdown

Jack — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:22:40 GMT

How can a governement who is staffed with appointees and represenatives that have themselves not paid taxes impose them on the people?

It has been said that the people don't mind this tax...I am an American and I oppose it. To the point that I will risk fines or imprisonment. Laws are made for men of ordinary understanding and should, therefore, be construed by the ordinary rules of common sense. A tax that restricts a man to live is a discrimination tax. law will never make men free; it is men who make the law free.

That government is best which governs least.

Another energy vote breakdown

eagle1776 — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:23:25 GMT

During the presidential campaign JOHN MCCAIN supported cap and trade. Now, all of a sudden, it is taboo? When companies don't act responsibly and do the right thing on their own they often must be forced to do so by the government. It is too bad that the polluters haven't acted more responsibly nor do the entend to start doing so because if they did the cap and trade idea would be moot. Sadly, we have found big industry getting a free pass even after the President in one State of the Union adress after another indicated a desire for clean energy and to clean up the environment. That President was George W. Bush who merely talked. Now we have a President who is at least trying to do something about it. What alternatives the opponents to cap and trade have is not known or has not been expressed. If we could get a committment from the big polluters to stop it and we could put high tariffs on goods from countries that pollute like China, India, Vietnam or Philippines maybe we would see some action, some responsibility as good citizens of this planet doing the right thing to keep the planet livable and then cap and trade would not be necessary. Cap and trade is only one concept. Since nothing better has been proposed it may be all we have to save our planet. Time will tell. Will it be too late? I hope I won't live long enough to know that unless responsible companies and governments take action NOW.